• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Mike , I did not know what WOF was for a long time.
I just thought the preachers I liked were Spirit filled, it was when I joined the forum that I noticed a conflict.

I am still not quite sure what the debate is about, other than some money preachers claiming Word of Faith.
It would help me if someone would provide some bullet points on the differences.
 
Upvote 0

Bob Carabbio

Old guy -
Dec 22, 2010
2,274
569
82
Glenn Hts. TX
✟43,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"Is God a respecter of persons?"

"Persons" refers to the "Character we play", or the "Religious mask that we wear". He Doesn't respect THAT, but He DOES deal with us independently according to our personal needs, weaknesses, and strengths, so in THAT respect he DOES take our REAL "Person" into account when He deals with us.

"Has he changed?"

Nope, HE doesn't change - although He DOES periodically alter his specific focus as He continues to restore the Visible Church.

"What did Christ say about asking God for anything?"

Ask in Faith - which is IMPOSSIBLE TO DO unless you Know the will of God in the situation. We can ALWAYS "Ask in hope", and God will HEAR every prayer, and answer them according to HIS WILL which wil invariably be THE BEST WAY taking into consideration that God has HIS eye on eternity, not temporal issues.

"What are the conditions Christ taught on prayer?"

IF you can believe in your Heart - NOTHING DOUBTING - (i.e. "Have Faith in God") - you've GOT what you say.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

Asking in faith, may be impossible for some.
But others know the will of God , by the Word of God
The Bible simply does not support your opinion in the second paragraph, how can any one know what a omnipresent God has his eye on, only the Word Christ Jesus knows.
God healed yesterday, and heals today , healing is for today!
Your last statement is in contradiction with your other statements.
 
Upvote 0

Bob Carabbio

Old guy -
Dec 22, 2010
2,274
569
82
Glenn Hts. TX
✟43,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"Asking in faith, may be impossible for some."

True - Asking in "Faith" is IMPOSSIBLE for anybody who doesn't have specific faith for the thing asked for.

"But others know the will of God , by the Word of God"

True - it's called the "Hearing of Faith" Gal 3:2. What's written in the Word is all well and good, but it doesn't necessarily apply to a given situation just because we want it to. If you don't KNOW the outcome of a petition, then you ARE NOT moving in Biblical Faith. Simple as that.

"The Bible simply does not support your opinion in the second paragraph, how can any one know what a omnipresent God has his eye on, only the Word Christ Jesus knows."

NOT True - the Bible indicates that God in history has employed a variety of methodologies, and has placed difeerent emphases at different times in history.

"God healed yesterday, and heals today , healing is for today!"

TRUE - God heals today just as He always has. I've watched Him do it.

"Your last statement is in contradiction with your other statements."

Absolutely FALSE -

It may be inconsistent with what your personal paradigm/interpretation demands, but There is NO inconsistency with anything I stated.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

When we ask amiss, we know it in our heart, we will not have faith to ask for things out of the will of God.
As Jesus said my sheep hear my voice.,The Holy Spirit guides our lives in the will of God. But God will give us our needs wants and desires of our heart, if we ask in faith, and often times when we don't ask at all.

If you have ever received something from God that was in the back of your mind, and you just wonder in his goodness, a blessing that you did not ask for .
Bob I was wrong on thinking your post was saying healing is not for today, that was my impression. Your not as old as you think, I live in a retirement community.
We have 80 year olds that pump iron in the gym, and 90 year olds playing golf.
God bless.
 
Upvote 0

Bob Carabbio

Old guy -
Dec 22, 2010
2,274
569
82
Glenn Hts. TX
✟43,923.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"We have 80 year olds that pump iron in the gym,"

I just got together with one of my cousins in Massachusetts who's 81, and doesn't look a day over 60, and travels all over the place (likes to take cruises).

I have to be more conservative of my energy, and find it a GOOD thing to have the nitro bottle handy when I stretch the "Rubber band" too tight. Still working full time, though -
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

Brother I know a lot about that nitro bottle, I had to grab it out of my dads pocket many times.
It was the only thing between life and death.
You know something though , he was a Freewill Baptist preacher, he would get anointed ,and
the preaching would hit and hit hard. Never did he need it while preaching.
It was only out of Church he would grab his chest turn purple, if my mom or brothers or myself did not get that little pill under his tongue he would have died.
You know one day we won't ever need them again , not even aspirin.
 
Upvote 0

Qnts2

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2012
1,323
111
✟2,056.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married

Very good summary.

Just my own bit:

When I became familiar with the Charismatic church, one difference between Pentacostals like Assembly of God, and the Charismatic church was the belief that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was evidenced by the speaking in tongues. Early Charismatic churches disagreed with this and believed that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was not always accompanied by speaking in tongues, but could be evidenced by other gifts such as prophesy. The Charismatic church was heavy into prophesy and the gift of prophesy came more to the forefront.

I agree with you that Kenyon started the WOF movement. One of the teachings of Kenyon was that God spoke things into existence using faith and the available power. Christians are also about to use faith and the existing power to speak thinks into existence. Kenyon proposed that this ability made people 'little gods'. While I agree that Hagin Sr did not go to the metaphysical as much as Kenyon, I would disagree that he entirely avoided it. A friend gave me a Kenyon tape and I was very surprised to find him saying to have faith in faith. I think that is esentially the common error of WOF, to have faith in faith.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I enjoy Hagin seniors teaching,I believe it is solid.
There are mistakes made on how prosperity is taught today,and how it is judged.
Poverty is not Gods will,nor is starving and strife.
You cannot help anyone if you can't help your self,you can worship the act of being humble,or you can worship gain is Godly both are wrong.
Having more than enough is not a sin,the same as you can't out give God.
It's all in the heart of the believer and judged in the eyes of God.
Name it and claim it is misconstrued by many as name your Rolex.
Name your need want desire,if it is spiritual physical or financial and claim Gods promise in Gods Word. Gods words haven't changed,but we have changed Gods word.
Can I Have a Rolex sure, do I want or need or desire one no,but I could give one away.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

Bob I enjoyed your summary, we had our gifts removed and taught against right out of the gate,
Satan does not enjoy the truth of believers authority,he will destroy any faith or any thing that gives God glory.
Racism was a issue for Seymore,many spoke against the Movement at that time including Pentecostal churches .
Of course old Guy we disagree on maybe two things.
But who cares! We both might disagree with our own pastors on something.
Doesn't keep us from God,only helps us grow.
I think Hagan started out Baptist,then Church of God,you and he have a lot in common. Come on over and join our fourm
 
Upvote 0

hopeinGod

A voice crying in the wilderness
Jul 26, 2004
1,584
172
Florida
Visit site
✟2,700.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Throughout my childhood, I attended numerous churches -- Lutheran, Salvation Army, Methodist, Baptist. I went forward to the altar for prayer at an early age, and not at any time was I accompanied by either of my parents. They weren't church goers.

But it wasn't until 1972, while standing in the chow line aboard a naval destroyer that I "heard" the gospel. It was a profound revelation. Through a friendly discussion with a fellow shipmate, I made a choice, and while lying in my bunk that night, motivated by that "breathed upon" word to me, I asked for forgiveness. The transformation within me was immediate.

However, the immediacy of my changed quickened spirit was not the precedent that was to set the course of my Christian walk. For nothing after that day came to me with equal speed. Oh, being filled with the Spirit was fairly fast, but nothing in comparison to being saved.

This is why spiritual formulas, I believe, were so easily adopted by me. Gone were those instantaneous responses by God -- whether to test me or not, who knows? -- and so the creation of some sort of system for procuring God's continuing involvement in my life became imperative, and not just for me, but many of us who also longed for experience.

As I see it now, that formula was the catalyst for the Charismatic Movement, which surely sweeped me off my youthful feet shod merely with the prerparation of the gospel. I longed for more.

Unfortunately, that distraction took far too many years from me. I'm still, to this day, sifting through the debris.
 
Upvote 0

Qnts2

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2012
1,323
111
✟2,056.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married

For me also, the moment of salvation was dramatic. For the first years, I also saw many dramatic things from God and quickly answered prayers. I think these very immediate and significant miraculous occurrences in answer to prayer many new believers experience, is a foundation of faith, for those desert times when God seems to be silent and there is little experiential. It was the desert times of God being silent that faith becomes less based on the experiential. But for me, it was the experiential and immediate which put me in the gifts for today 'charismatic' camp...
 
Upvote 0

Yahu

Jezebel's bain
May 14, 2012
2,349
212
✟3,900.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican

I grew up in a non-WoF spirit filled church. They have many things in common such as the concepts of Spiritual warfare. WoF tends to be strong in that area because they are all about Speaking with authority. That is one area that WoF gets right when dealing with our authority over the enemy realm.

Now doctrines like 'healing always being Yah's will' is specifically WoF. By my non-WoF understanding, sin can prevent healing. Repentance is required for the specific issue that opened the door for the illness. For example, both my sister-in-laws have had cancer. One tried for healing but didn't get it until a Word of Knowledge pointed out her error. She then repented of that issue and is now cancer free. My other sister-in-law refused to acknowledge any error on her own part and died of her cancer. Both received abundant prayer for healing.

Now healing can be sent by the enemy. The problem is, it just trades one form of problem for another. It extracts a price. Use witchcraft to bring healing and you will probably be worse off for it.

WoF tends to follow the teachings of a relatively small group of men and the doctrines presented out of Rhema bible college. IMO, many of those doctrines are in error.

I myself went to another WoF bible college. I didn't know it was WoF based but it turned out to be one of those extreme caricatures of WoF. Basically it was about turning your bible into your spell book to speak magic words to bring what you desire.
 
Upvote 0

Yahu

Jezebel's bain
May 14, 2012
2,349
212
✟3,900.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
"What are the conditions Christ taught on prayer?"

IF you can believe in your Heart - NOTHING DOUBTING - (i.e. "Have Faith in God") - you've GOT what you say.
Yet, if we seek His kingdom first, our desires become His desire and we pray for His will be done, not our own.

WoF tends to demand our will be done out of arrogance that we have a right to any desire that they can twist a scripture to the situation.
 
Upvote 0

hopeinGod

A voice crying in the wilderness
Jul 26, 2004
1,584
172
Florida
Visit site
✟2,700.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
I'm not one who can believe the Charismatic extremes of today will hold up in the long run. Believers may speak of WOF and the prophetic wannabe movements like the Elijah List in decades ahead, but merely as a passing phenomenon.

All that is contained within the above groups, as I see it, are marks of spiritual ambition, not the sort of spiritual desire described in Scripture. It seems to be all about the attainment of position, entitlements, wealth, recognition and adulation, and in total denial of true godliness which is contingent upon denial of self.

What is ahead for those, like me, who are survivors of extremism and error is anyone's guess. For now, I'm content to lay aside that weight and to warn against its blinding side effects.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

Well I would rather believe for Gods best than not believe at all.
If a person received from God at one time,and then it stopped why would they assume it was the will of God.
That is true arrogance, to discount others Faith as greed and piety, because your faith has failed.
Show me Good in sickness and poverty,I am amazed at the God of self pity people serve.
I am thank full Peter did not give up,he could have after he denied Christ three times.
Done
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

Oh but God stops for some reason,you have had your new Christian fellowship then the power stops God changes but you haven't
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟279,972.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married

So twisting the meaning!
Matthew 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

This context is for our needs,seek ye first the kingdom of God these things what things,food clothes basic needs.
It takes faith to Minster Preach, spread the Gospel.
 
Upvote 0