Crossing oneself

[joyfulthanks]

Just out of curiousity, when is it considered proper to cross oneself during a Lutheran service?

I frequently cross myself at home during my prayer time, but have never done so in church unless I was at a Catholic or Orthodox service.

I've seen a few (not many) people crossing themselves in the Lutheran church we've been attending, and was just wondering if there is any protocol for this practice.

 

[WildStrawberry]

I cross myself when Pastor says "In the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit" (and anytime the Trinity is spoken like that), during the Verba where Pastor makes the sign of the cross over the elements, before I kneel at communion and as Pastor is blessing us after communion.

There's no "Proper time" other than when the Trinity is invoked. And crossing yourself is adiaphoria so I don't think you can do it "wrong".

Kae

 

[DaRev]

There are some markings in the LSB liturgy to indicate when the sign of the cross may be made. At the Invocation, the pronouncement of Absolution, at the last line of the Creeds, during the reciting of the Verba (words of institution), after receiving Communion before leaving the table, and at the Benediction.

It can also be done at the announcement of the Gospel reading and at the reception of each of the elements of the Lord's Supper. I also do it at the beginning of the sermon and when the Trinity is mentioned both during the liturgy and in hymns.

 

[joyfulthanks]

Thank you both. The church we have been attending uses the LSB, but prints it in the bulletin instead of using the book itself. I looked at this week's bulletin, but wasn't able to find any little + signs, which is, I assume, how it would be marked. However, communion was not celebrated this past week, so maybe it's different on communion Sundays.

 

[Studeclunker]

When I was growing up, it was common for the entire congregation to be crossing themselves at the appropriate places during services, communion or not. Nowdays they look at me as if I'm nutz!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

When I was growing up, it was common for the entire congregation to be crossing themselves at the appropriate places during services, communion or not. Nowdays they look at me as if I'm nutz!

Counting Pastor, there are four of us who do it. No one says anything one way or the other, nor should they. I'm the only one who does it rt. to left.

 

[Lupinus]

there are a few of us who do it at different times at my church.

I typically do it after receiving communion and occasionally other times through the service.

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

I do it everytime DaRev and WildStrawberry mentioned. There are an average of 4 people in each LCMS congregation I have been to who cross themselves. It really is a beautiful act of reverence of the Holy Trinity.

 

[joyfulthanks]

I do it everytime DaRev and WildStrawberry mentioned. There are an average of 4 people in each LCMS congregation I have been to who cross themselves.

That's about exactly how many I noticed crossing themselves at the church we've been attending.

So I'm curious - does crossing yourself make you stand out in a bad way? Do people think you're an oddball if you do it, or are they pretty much indifferent? As a newcomer, I'm not really wanting to stand out in a bad way, but I also do relish the opportunity to cross myself in church.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

That's about exactly how many I noticed crossing themselves at the church we've been attending.

So I'm curious - does crossing yourself make you stand out in a bad way? Do people think you're an oddball if you do it, or are they pretty much indifferent? As a newcomer, I'm not really wanting to stand out in a bad way, but I also do relish the opportunity to cross myself in church.

Maybe stand out in a good way! As I said before, no one seems to notice or take offense. Be bold in your faith. Blessings and Peace, Mark

 

[LutheranHawkeye]

That's about exactly how many I noticed crossing themselves at the church we've been attending.

So I'm curious - does crossing yourself make you stand out in a bad way? Do people think you're an oddball if you do it, or are they pretty much indifferent? As a newcomer, I'm not really wanting to stand out in a bad way, but I also do relish the opportunity to cross myself in church.

It definitely makes you stick out. If the Pastor is continually using the sign of the cross to bless, why not follow the example of the clergy. The first time I came back to my home congregation from college people freaked out when I was using the sign of the cross, but it really is just an extra act of devotion. People call it adiaphora, but I think it should be essential, it emphasizes the work of God like the benediction, and the words of institution. And what is cooler than joining into a practice that our ancestors' ancestors participated in.

 

[Studeclunker]

That's about exactly how many I noticed crossing themselves at the church we've been attending.

So I'm curious - does crossing yourself make you stand out in a bad way? Do people think you're an oddball if you do it, or are they pretty much indifferent? As a newcomer, I'm not really wanting to stand out in a bad way, but I also do relish the opportunity to cross myself in church.

You know, reading the above post made me realize that most of the people attending the service I do probably don't understand what I'm doing. The service I attend is the 'contemporary' service. To attend the eight o'clock service requries getting up at four A.M. No thank you. I also acknowledge His presence when approaching the altar by stopping and bowing.

The Pastor calls me a Sacramentalist, but I don't care. The King of all creation is acknowledged to be present and I'll pay proper respect where it is due. But I degress...

Being that this particular LCMS church has embraced the Ablaze programme, these new people have no idea what a real Lutheran service is.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I cross myself when Pastor says "In the name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit" (and anytime the Trinity is spoken like that), during the Verba where Pastor makes the sign of the cross over the elements, before I kneel at communion and as Pastor is blessing us after communion.

There's no "Proper time" other than when the Trinity is invoked. And crossing yourself is adiaphoria so I don't think you can do it "wrong".

Kae

I agree...

This is a matter of "adiaphora" and there is no real "rule" about it - among Catholics (where I learned this and developed the practice) or among Lutherans.

My practice is to do this at two points in the Mass:

1. At the proclaimation of the Trinity. Also at the conclusion of the Creed (the Trinity is affirmed in the Creed, albeit not in one sentance), I do it during the line, "...and the life of the world to come" or "...and the life everlasting".

2. When departing from the Eucharist. The pastor gives us the blessing, "depart in peace" and gives the Sign, I do the same.


A couple of notes:

It took me SEVERAL weeks to get use to entering and just sitting down! I AT LEAST needed to stop and do the Sign - even thought that's not traditional, but well.... I have learned to just sit down.

I had several visits with my pastor before I joined, and in one of them, he commented that Lutherans do the Sign differently than Catholics (I NEVER NOTICED!) Lutherans do it backwards! Anyway, I STILL forget that at times and do it the Catholic way. I'm HARDLY alone.

When I first started going to the Catholic Church, I called all these things "Catholic choreography!" And there is a LOT of it for a Protestant not familiar with any of it. It took several weeks just to know what I was to do at that point, kinda seemed distracting from worship. Funny thing is, after awhile, it didn't detract, it helped.

One of the MANY things I love about Lutherans is that while we regard all this as adiaphora and don't get so HUNG UP on it, we don't diss it either. Lutherans don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Former Catholics like me feel right at home, real soon - and come to LOVE the theology.



Just my perspective....


Pax!


- Josiah





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[DaRev]

I had several visits with my pastor before I joined, and in one of them, he commented that Lutherans do the Sign differently than Catholics (I NEVER NOTICED!) Lutherans do it backwards! Anyway, I STILL forget that at times and do it the Catholic way. I'm HARDLY alone.

There really is no "Lutheran" way to do it.

The Roman Catholics do it (with the right hand) head, chest, left shoulder, right shoulder. There is a specific reason they do it that way. Christ came from heaven (head) down to earth (chest) descended into hell (left shoulder) and ascended to the right hand of God (right shoulder).
The EOC does it right shoulder to left shoulder so that the right hand ends up over the heart. Most Lutherans I know (including myself) do it the Orthodox way, but basically because it's a more natural movement for the right hand. But neither way is strictly "Lutheran".

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

There really is no "Lutheran" way to do it.

The Roman Catholics do it (with the right hand) head, chest, left shoulder, right shoulder. There is a specific reason they do it that way. Christ came from heaven (head) down to earth (chest) descended into hell (left shoulder) and ascended to the right hand of God (right shoulder).
The EOC does it right shoulder to left shoulder so that the right hand ends up over the heart. Most Lutherans I know (including myself) do it the Orthodox way, but basically because it's a more natural movement for the right hand. But neither way is strictly "Lutheran".

Of course, I was taught the Catholic way - although I had forgotten the meaning you give, but yes, now I recall...

I now do it the Orthodox way, following the practice of my pastor. I don't think most of the members even notice there's a difference; I didn't!



Pax


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[Protoevangel]

I even met some Lutherans (laypeople and pastors) who cross themselves with their thumbs on their foreheads. That is also a very ancient and venerable practice.

 

[DaRev]

I even met some Lutherans (laypeople and pastors) who cross themselves with their thumbs on their foreheads. That is also a very ancient and venerable practice.

True. I know several who do that.

Just prior to reading the Gospel reading during the Divine Service I use my thumb and make the sign of the cross on my forehead, lips, and heart. I learned this from my mother whilst I was a RC. She told me a little silent prayer to say while doing it that I have always remembered. "Lord, may Your word be forever on my mind, on my lips, and in my heart."

 

[Protoevangel]

True. I know several who do that.

Just prior to reading the Gospel reading during the Divine Service I use my thumb and make the sign of the cross on my forehead, lips, and heart. I learned this from my mother whilst I was a RC. She told me a little silent prayer to say while doing it that I have always remembered. "Lord, may Your word be forever on my mind, on my lips, and in my heart."

That's a beautiful practice.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

True. I know several who do that.

Just prior to reading the Gospel reading during the Divine Service I use my thumb and make the sign of the cross on my forehead, lips, and heart. I learned this from my mother whilst I was a RC. She told me a little silent prayer to say while doing it that I have always remembered. "Lord, may Your word be forever on my mind, on my lips, and in my heart."

Yes, this is a beautiful practice that we followed in the Anglican Catholic Church, too. With the same (silent) prayer, before the reading of the Gospel.

Mary

 

[rockytrails]

I cross my self when satan is throwing my own sins in my face. To REMIND and him I am baptized.