Crosses on the Side of the Road

flicka · Dec 7, 2005

Nevermind the cross controversery, I'm not sure I understand the whole 'roadside memorial' idea anyway. I see makeshift memorials from time to time after a fatal accident but there is a time limit on how long they can remain because it's thought they actually distract drivers who try to read the signs or names and could potentially cause yet another accident.

Many people die in the course of their job...police officers, firemen, military personal, etc. I hate to sound crass but why the heck does anyone need a permanent public memorial anyway? If everyone 'worthy' got one we would quickly run out of space!

Ampoliros · Dec 7, 2005

christianmarine said:
How do the crosses violate the Constitution when your tax dollars didn't even pay for them? Your tax dollars pay for me and I'm studying at a Christian college, of which the government, utilizing your tax money, is paying 100% of my tuition. Also, your tax dollars also pay for the religious services of the military, does that violate the Constitution? We are led in prayer before every ceremony, does that violate the Constitution?

The quote I was responding to stated that the crosses were paid for by tax dollars. As long as they are not, I've got no objection.

As to the rest - I have no problems with the government giving money to a Christian college as its your tuition. The government can support you, who supports the college. Simple.

Tax dollars for religious services in the military do not violate the constitution, as long as there is no discrimination - ie, Muslims cant get services, but Christians could would be illegal.

As to the prayer services before ceremony - if they're expressly Christian and mandatory, then yes, there's a problem with that, imho.

Simple enough? The government either takes no position, or must provide for all faiths equally, pretty much.

Yusuf Evans · Dec 7, 2005

Ampoliros said:
The quote I was responding to stated that the crosses were paid for by tax dollars. As long as they are not, I've got no objection.

As to the rest - I have no problems with the government giving money to a Christian college as its your tuition. The government can support you, who supports the college. Simple.

Tax dollars for religious services in the military do not violate the constitution, as long as there is no discrimination - ie, Muslims cant get services, but Christians could would be illegal.

As to the prayer services before ceremony - if they're expressly Christian and mandatory, then yes, there's a problem with that, imho.

Simple enough? The government either takes no position, or must provide for all faiths equally, pretty much.

It's still government sponsorship of religion, whether or not they allow all to practice. Yes, a prayer is required to be performed before every ceremony. Go ahead and file a lawsuit against it, you might win.

MethodMan · Dec 7, 2005

Rize said:
And agnostics get a question mark like we're confused.

That's two.

MethodMan · Dec 7, 2005

flicka said:
Nevermind the cross controversery, I'm not sure I understand the whole 'roadside memorial' idea anyway. I see makeshift memorials from time to time after a fatal accident but there is a time limit on how long they can remain because it's thought they actually distract drivers who try to read the signs or names and could potentially cause yet another accident.

Many people die in the course of their job...police officers, firemen, military personal, etc. I hate to sound crass but why the heck does anyone need a permanent public memorial anyway? If everyone 'worthy' got one we would quickly run out of space!

Service

k · Dec 7, 2005

The cartoon seems to completely misrepresent the situation, thereby removing any shred of credibility and respectability to those who may have supported the anti-atheist position.

MichaelFJF · Dec 7, 2005

Neverstop said:
The cartoon seems to completely misrepresent the situation, thereby removing any shred of credibility and respectability to those who may have supported the anti-atheist position.

Um, hello, it's a cartoon.

k · Dec 7, 2005

MichaelFJF said:
Um, hello, it's a cartoon.

um, hello, it's purposefully misleading progaganda...this has been done from before WWII.

It's disingenuous to claim it is innocuous.

MichaelFJF · Dec 7, 2005

Neverstop said:
um, hello, it's purposefully misleading progaganda...this has been done from before WWII.

It's disingenuous to claim it is innocuous.

Well I suggest you don't go near any editorial page in the country. You might get 'disingenuous-ed'.

A cartoon is misleading - imagine that.

k · Dec 7, 2005

MichaelFJF said:
Well I suggest you don't go near any editorial page in the country. You might get 'disingenuous-ed'.

A cartoon is misleading - imagine that.

Thanks for the advice but it does nothing to address the issue of purposefully portraying atheists as being hypocritical. In fact, some accuse them of what they are guilty of themselves. That is the problem with the cartoon.

MaryS · Dec 7, 2005

christianmarine said:
How do the crosses violate the Constitution when your tax dollars didn't even pay for them? Your tax dollars pay for me and I'm studying at a Christian college, of which the government, utilizing your tax money, is paying 100% of my tuition. Also, your tax dollars also pay for the religious services of the military, does that violate the Constitution? We are led in prayer before every ceremony, does that violate the Constitution?

The Senate and the House of Representatives have been led in prayer with Chaplains paid for by tax dollars since 1789, so I doubt anyone is going to take issue with religious services for the military.

The Supreme Court overturned a ruling by a lower court that had decided that tax money couldn't be used to finance education in a religious-based school, so I think they're will be no problem with tax dollars being used to help someone attend a religious colllege as long as the student chose that school.
Details of the 2002 Supreme Court ruling are at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelman_v._Simmons-Harris

k · Dec 7, 2005

Would Christians complain if people quoted Nietzsche and placed "God is Dead" signs on the side of the roads?

TScott · Dec 7, 2005

Neverstop said:
Would Christians complain if people quoted Nietzsche and placed "God is Dead" signs on the side of the roads?

I always liked this sign:

"Nietzche is dead" -God

numberprophet · Dec 7, 2005

TScott said:
I always liked this sign:

"Nietzche is dead" -God

i always liked that one too. the argument being: unless you are immortal, you are wrong.

MaryS · Dec 7, 2005

Neverstop said:
Would Christians complain if people quoted Nietzsche and placed "God is Dead" signs on the side of the roads?

What does a sign like that have to do with crosses? I don't think the signs are saying that God is alive, they just indicate a falen Christian.

MaryS · Dec 7, 2005

TScott said:
I always liked this sign:

"Nietzche is dead" -God

Priceless!

[sign]Nietzsche is dead ~ God[/sign]

rebelEnigma · Dec 7, 2005

Even the issue of what is put on a grave is coming into the political forum! What is the big deal here? How is it affecting you if someone is buried with a cross over their grave? If you don't want that, then request it, but don't go around plucking crosses off of the side of the road because it somehow offends you.

k · Dec 7, 2005

TScott said:
I always liked this sign:

"Nietzche is dead" -God

That is cute but it ignores the question.

Arkanin · Dec 7, 2005

So... getting back to the question, if you saw a [SIGN]God is dead. -Nietzsche[/SIGN], would you complain?

k · Dec 7, 2005

MaryS said:
What does a sign like that have to do with crosses? I don't think the signs are saying that God is alive, they just indicate a falen Christian.

What? We ALL know what crosses are supposed to represent.

Can there be an answer to the question? It has been avoided twice in less than 10 minutes.

Crosses on the Side of the Road

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