Cross Dressing

[RedRover]

(Emph added)

What is this "problem" you speak of?

By problem I mean doing something unconventional that is going to cause people to be uncomfortable around you.

 

[KitKatMatt]

By problem I mean doing something unconventional that is going to cause people to be uncomfortable around you.

People can be made uncomfortable by doing just about anything.

I chew my food with my mouth open, I find it enhances my sense of taste. Makes everyone in the room uncomfortable, but it's my right to do so (and I make sure not to get food particles flying, because that's gross).

 

[Marius27]

Ya but guys shouldn't be palling around in women's clothing, that is too close to homosexuality and is against God. Cross dressing, even accounting for cultural standards, is rejecting your gender and trying to DESIGN another which God did not make you in and you were not born with so its actually rejecting God.

Actually it has nothing to do with homosexuality. In fact, most cross-dressers are heterosexual. And this is merely your opinion, not one shared by all people, even other believers.

And you clearly don't understand the science behind transgenders. The brain does get cross-wired.

 

[RedRover]

People can be made uncomfortable by doing just about anything.

This issue is resolved in High School by peer pressure. We learn in school what is and what is not acceptable and what we need to do to blend in and to be a productive part of society. Of course I live in a conservative state. People always have the option of moving to an area that is more liberal if they feel they would fit in better there. Even we have that option here if we want to attend a liberal arts college or if we want to attend the more conservative university.

 

[Cearbhall]

By problem I mean doing something unconventional that is going to cause people to be uncomfortable around you.

Sounds like the other people are the ones with a problem on their hands.

 

[RedRover]

Sounds like the other people are the ones with a problem on their hands.

Sounds like a ghetto attitude to me. If you want to take on the world and battle social norms then far be it for me to get in your way.

 

[Cearbhall]

Sounds like a ghetto attitude to me. If you want to take on the world and battle social norms then far be it for me to get in your way.

Ironically, individuality, creativity, and social justice are traditionally values of the educated upper middle-class, which is why my life is based on such priorities. Ghettos have the most reliance on norms, often called "street codes."

 

[jennimatts]

By problem I mean doing something unconventional that is going to cause people to be uncomfortable around you.

People can be made uncomfortable by doing just about anything.

True... even though heterosexuality is the norm, many (perhaps even most?) people are uncomfortable when a man and woman are passionately affectionate in public.

 

[jennimatts]

Perhaps using the term "ghetto attitude" is just a way of dismissing any relevance of the point without considering or responding to it directly so as to avoid giving it any credibility.

 

[KitKatMatt]

This issue is resolved in High School by peer pressure. We learn in school what is and what is not acceptable and what we need to do to blend in and to be a productive part of society. Of course I live in a conservative state. People always have the option of moving to an area that is more liberal if they feel they would fit in better there. Even we have that option here if we want to attend a liberal arts college or if we want to attend the more conservative university.

Not that I'm encouraging extreme behavior, but most of the "social norms" I learned in school, frankly, are total crap that we should stop perpetuating.

Stuff that doesn't benefit society, and just makes our problems worse. Stuff that continues only because we allow it to germinate in high school and then bloom fully once the kids are out into the real world.

 

[Cearbhall]

Perhaps using the term "ghetto attitude" is just a way of dismissing any relevance of the point without considering or responding to it directly so as to avoid giving it any credibility.

That's what I'm assuming, since the traits for which I am being criticized are those most common among the privileged.

Not that I'm encouraging extreme behavior, but most of the "social norms" I learned in school, frankly, are total crap that we should stop perpetuating.

Yes, and I thought that was the function of children's and family-friendly sitcoms. To pound positive messages into our heads before we hit the messed-up world of high school.

 

[variant]

This is something that effects me personally, I would like to know how anyone else feels about it!

I dress in men's clothing all the time, at home and at work. It is much cheaper, easier to shop fore (all the sizes are the same!), it's more comfortable for me, and men's pants actually have decent pockets. Oh, and they tend to last longr being washed constantly!

What are your thoughts on cross dressing- for practical reasons or otherwise? Would you interact differently with someone that you notice is cross dressing than someone who is wearing clothing tailored for their gender?

For all intents and purposes I'm referring to cross dressing in an appropriate manner. I had a few pictures of a man who liked to wear a dress in public who looked very stunning and smart, but I seem to have lost them. It was something that fit him, was appropriate for public wear, and was not worn as a joke. This is what I am talking about.

Clothing style is a completely artificial social construct.

It has to do with what people "expect" of you in society; so dressing in another genders clothing is breaking an unwritten rule in peoples minds, with the added benefit of giving people a subconscious hint at the sort of roll you would like to fulfill.

People will react to it based upon their flexibility with those rules and expectations.

The styles themselves reflect/betray what we as a society feel about men and women, which is why men who dress as women are given such a hard time because for men, femininity is beneath them.

If this sounds sexist, it's because it entirely is. Society at large is very culturally sexist on a semi-conscious level on this issue.

 

[Cute Tink]

This issue is resolved in High School by peer pressure. We learn in school what is and what is not acceptable and what we need to do to blend in and to be a productive part of society. Of course I live in a conservative state. People always have the option of moving to an area that is more liberal if they feel they would fit in better there. Even we have that option here if we want to attend a liberal arts college or if we want to attend the more conservative university.

High school is such a wonderful place for those who are different. I was afraid to be myself in high school because I figured that I would get beat up all the time. Is that the type of peer pressure that you think is healthy? I doubt it. While you probably meant that you can move to an area that is more liberal after high school, it is not really an option to just move when you are a kid.

As far as blending in and being a productive part of society, I lived my life, until recently, trying so hard to be what everyone expected me to be. All it ever got me was depressed, with some times of happiness when things were going well. I think I'm a more productive member of society now that I'm not blending in and am actually being myself.

 

[Joykins]

(Emph added)

What is this "problem" you speak of?

In addition to dressing "in" men's clothes, sometimes I dress "up" as a man. I'll wear a chest binder, and this combined with my usual lack of makeup, short hair, and current wardrobe, it's easy to mistake me as a young man (which is sometimes my intention).

So, what's the "problem" in doing this? You are free to think it's weird, but I don't see any "problem".

Do you find people think you are a man and treat you differently because of it?

 

[Joykins]

I'd love to wear men's clothes for some things as their sizings make sense, their costs are generally lower, but being very short (for a woman, even) and curvy they just don't fit right unless it's a t- or sweatshirt.

I don't have any moral objection to cross-dressing in general, but I think deliberately fooling other people (those who have a reason to know) about your gender* is not very honest.

* trans people being a special case as their truths about gender are necessarily more complex

 

[KitKatMatt]

Do you find people think you are a man and treat you differently because of it?

There have been a couple of people who have continued to think I was a man after I started speaking- men tend to be more animated and open with me. I got into a great conversation about books with a cashier at a local book store!

He referred to me as "guy" several times, so I'm pretty sure he didn't know I was a woman. He seemed very relaxed, as opposed to when I talk to most guys without my binder and such. They always seem so careful and unsure of what to talk about (I never got the whole deal with being uncomfortable around girls?)

 

[Cute Tink]

* trans people being a special case as their truths about gender are necessarily more complex

Thank you for noting the difference.

 

[mandyangel]

I think she is afraid to catch the gay.

Some people react strongly to things they see as a personal weakness / temptation, so maybe a bit of truth to that.

These are the reasons it is so difficult to have an honest debate or thoughtful conversation, it really just makes me want to gag and do something else.

 

[Saleena]

These are the reasons it is so difficult to have an honest debate or thoughtful conversation, it really just makes me want to gag and do something else.

Then go do it?

 

[variant]

These are the reasons it is so difficult to have an honest debate or thoughtful conversation, it really just makes me want to gag and do something else.

Honest and thoughtful conversations are the ones where only you belittle people?