Cross Denomination Relationships

[Lutheran021342]

I have a pair of friends who have been dating for a while, and now that they are getting serious, religion is coming up more strongly. He is ELCA and has the full support of his congregation (at least from what I have heard), but she is LCMS and I have not heard fully positive things from her congregation about the relationship. I am interested to know if this is more of a doctrinal difference between how the various Lutheran churches view dating/marriage or if this just happens to be two very different congregations. Thanks!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I have a pair of friends who have been dating for a while, and now that they are getting serious, religion is coming up more strongly. He is ELCA and has the full support of his congregation (at least from what I have heard), but she is LCMS and I have not heard fully positive things from her congregation about the relationship. I am interested to know if this is more of a doctrinal difference between how the various Lutheran churches view dating/marriage or if this just happens to be two very different congregations. Thanks!

I dated outside of the WELS in high school and college. My parents, while discouraging it, did not forbid it. I learned soon enough that it's not ideal and unless one is willing to change to the other it makes it downright difficult. LilLamb has more experience in that area, though, since I believe she's married to a Catholic. It's doable...

I am not surprised that the ELCA congregation has given full blessings to the relationship. Sometimes I think they're so open-minded about things that their mind actually fell out.

No one really stops to talk about the difficulties that will be present in a cross denom relationship, even when we're talking about different Lutheran denoms. If your friends get married and have children, how will the children be raised? ELCA or LCMS? Remember, they're both Lutheran but they also teach distinctly different doctrines. What if there is a doctrinal dispute amongst the two of them? Does the husband believe something that the wife believes is wrong? Etc.

After experiencing being married to a non-Lutheran and now being married to a WELS pastor, I tend to discourage cross-denom relationships to a point. My eldest son is dating a Catholic right now...we talk to him about the difficulties rather than telling him he can't, but we try to make it clear that it's not cut and dry or easy.

 

[Luther073082]

Basically social issues, the LCMS is conservative based on long held Christian traditions dating back to the apostles and scripture and the ELCA is based on modernistic feelings.

The LCMS does not have female clergy, the ELCA does.

The LCMS opposes abortion as the killing of a child under all circumstances. The ELCA does not

The LCMS opposes sex before marriage, the ELCA only opposes promiscuity.

The LCMS opposes homosexual activity as inheritly sinful. The ELCA believes homosexuality can be acceptable.

The LCMS opposes unionism such as the sharing of communion between people who have major doctrinal disagreements. The ELCA does not.

The LCMS does not accept apostolic succession since it is not scriptural.

The ELCA has a deal with the Episcopal church under which most ELCA pastors are ordained with a Episcopal bishop present to lay on hands. While the ELCA does not state the it belives in apostolic succession, in practice the ELCA practices Apostolic succession so it is logical for one to belive that the ELCA does in fact believe in Apostolic succession.

The all LCMS churchs belive in roughly the same doctrine, some practices change, and there is argument as to if these practices should be tolerated or not within the LCMS.

However individual ELCA churchs belive radically different things.

The LCMS is a denomination of Christianity holding roughly the same beliefs in both word and practice. While each congregation has ultimate authority over themselves, in order to remain a part of the LCMS they must belive, teach and confess what the LCMS does and only use rostered clergy within the LCMS or a denomination that the LCMS has an altar pulpit fellowship with.

The ELCA claims to be a denomination but is in reality a loose confederation of independent churchs and pastors each holding their own differing views regarding just about everything.

 

[Flipper]

My mom is loosely RCC and my dad is agnostic - and they have been married 44 years. I'm Lutheran - so I guess they did something right, HA!!

Cross denominational relationships can work and they do. However, from a practical standpoint, marriage is hard enough - why make it more difficult? In this case it is not a matter of having enough differences to make life interesting, these can be differences in faith that can potentially lead to some awful arguments. There are enough things to argue about in a marriage as it is.

As a parent, there are enough decisions about raising children that you don't need to add what faith to raise them up in. Also, growing up, we weren't allowed to talk about faith. That's how my parents handled the differences - just don't bring it up at all. I want my children to be able to come to DH or I with questions about their faith whenever they want without any fear or apprehension and for DH and I to be united with our answers.

 

[Lprdgecko]

While I don't have personal experience in this matter, many of my relatives (and even my parents) were married while both were different denominations.

When my parents got married, my mom was Catholic, dad was Lutheran. They married in a Catholic church. I was born 5 years later. Mom was still Catholic. She finally converted and was confirmed into the LCMS church right around the time she found out she was pregnant with my brother (when I was about 18 months old). She's said that she really didn't like some of the Catholic practices (praying to saints, etc.) and she knew my dad would never convert from Lutheranism.

In fact, most of my relatives (especially on mom's side) are Catholic/Lutheran - Lutheran/Catholic converts through marriage.

I don't think it's absolutely necessary for people to be the same denomination for the marriage to work, but I'm sure it'd make the marriage much easier (again, I have no experience in this area yet, just speculating). One of the elders in my church has a wife who is Orthodox (I think). They have 2 daughters. To my knowledge, they took them to each church every other week, and once they were older, let them choose. The oldest goes with the mom, the youngest comes with the dad. They are still happily married.

Maybe there is a chance that your ELCA friend will convert to LCMS after the marriage?

 

[DaRev]

Reminds me of this:

'Cheers' Demonstrates Why Lutherans Should Not Follow The Episcopalians - YouTube

I pray that the outcome is different, however.

 

[steve_bakr]

I hope you don't mind my posting here this brief post. The subject is of great interest to me, as I am a Roman Catholic married to a Protestant. The way it works is that we support each other's faith journey, and we most definitely don't try to convert each other.

 

[Aibrean]

I couldn't be in a relationship with an ELCA member.

 

[neen1]

One of my faculty members is Jewish and is married to a LCMS woman. They have been married for 30+ years and have made it work. They raised their children in the Lutheran church and it seems to have worked for them.

I think that if try hard enough you can make it work. You need to have a open communication with your spouse about religion and how you will raise children when they come into the picture.

 

[Aibrean]

That's not cross denomination...that's cross faith.

 

[Lutheran021342]

Aibrean brings up an interesting point. Is there a viewpoint difference between cross denomination and cross faith? I would think the similarities of the two denominations would make it easier than two faiths. Although, perhaps there is enough similar to make the differences more acute?

 

[Shane R]

The truth is, most Americans are so religiously illiterate that denominational affiliation is often insignificant. My wife describes herself as Baptist, and yet attended a Methodist church for almost half her life and cannot identify doctrinal differences between the two. People have tended to pick churches based on family tradition or preference in worship style and programs. Thankfully, I am noticing many people who have grown discontent with that method and are probing deeper to select a church.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The truth is, most Americans are so religiously illiterate that denominational affiliation is often insignificant. My wife describes herself as Baptist, and yet attended a Methodist church for almost half her life and cannot identify doctrinal differences between the two. People have tended to pick churches based on family tradition or preference in worship style and programs. Thankfully, I am noticing many people who have grown discontent with that method and are probing deeper to select a church.

half of my dad's family is Lutheran but can't formulate what a Lutheran believes...

 

[Tangible]

The truth is, most Americans are so religiously illiterate that denominational affiliation is often insignificant. My wife describes herself as Baptist, and yet attended a Methodist church for almost half her life and cannot identify doctrinal differences between the two. People have tended to pick churches based on family tradition or preference in worship style and programs. Thankfully, I am noticing many people who have grown discontent with that method and are probing deeper to select a church.

That's the way it is in the town where I live. The largest non-Lutheran protestant church here is Disciples of Christ. They have the largest, loudest, and most musically proficient contemporary worship service in town, so new families in town who formerly worshiped in vanilla-Evangelical/non-demom churches usually gravitate there. Most of these people are actually pretty conservative, at least socially, and have no idea how socially and theologically liberal the DoC church really is, and they don't really even want to know. They just like the worship style.

I say this from personal experience. That was us before we became Lutheran. (Now we find ourselves in the awkward position of being more Lutheran than our local LCMS church. )

 

[Luckster]

I have this discussion beat.

My mom is Orthodox, good Greek girl. My dad is a staunch German Lutheran (LCMS). He went to a Lutheran high school right next door to the Orthodox church my mom attended (the same one where they would get married and I would be baptized in). Both had been married previously (Dad to a Lutheran girl right out of high school and Mom to a short, bald Greek guy). Of course, when they began dating, they agreed and understood that the kids would be raised Orthodox, because, you know, "Yes dear". Coincidentally, my dad later told me that he had a teacher who said, "The worst thing a Lutheran could do is marry a Catholic," which is pretty much what he did when he married my mom.

But, I spent most of my childhood in Montana where the nearest Orthodox church was two hours away. So, for two Sundays a month I attended my dad's LCMS church. I attended their Sunday School and Bible Studies. I was, unfortunately, lumped in with the Lutherans when I ran into those kids at school, "Oh, he (me) attends my church (LCMS)."

Anyways, I still evangelized to the Lutherans. In fact, my best friend at the time, began his confirmation classes a year early at 6th grade. So, I attended some as well. One class I was invited to speak on Orthodox; I was 11 and in fifth grade at the time. In a prophetic twist, I attended a Lutheran University years later with a strong Pre-Sem program. Being raised among Lutherans has allowed me to 'talk the talk', but I still enjoy a good Lutheran joke now and again.

In Mid-May, I'll even be visiting some friends down in St. Louis. We'll do the usual routine: Drink beer and discuss theology.

 

[bach90]

From what I've seen, the RC/EO tend to only allow marriage with other denominations if both parties agree to raise the child EO/RC. Lutherans don't require this "promise."

Amongst Lutherans, it would depend on the individual case. There are some members of the ELCA fighting to regain their church from their sophistic leaders. Personally, it's important that a potential spouse shares my confession or is seriously open to converting.

 

[alexnbethmom]

i wouldn't marry someone who didn't have the same confession of faith that i do.

 

[Stephan2050]

I thing it would be healthy to marry a christian from another denomination. You will spend eternity in heaven working out and understanding your differences so why not get a head start. "Easier" is not always better.

 

[Aibrean]

There is enough stress in a marriage without adding the fighting over theological differences to the mix.

 

[Stephan2050]

Fighting rather than an open (passionate) discussing between friends is why the church had 2000 denominations.