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louiseandgary

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After watching 'The passion of the Christ' again, I was wondering, after all the suffering Jesus endured, he kept his dignity and accepted the punishment as his fate Why, when the worst was over did he say 'My Lord, why have you forsaken me?' It almost seemed like he was desperate or angry with God for allowing this. It seems to go against the grain of Jesus' teachings.
 

Prince Lucianus

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It's been a source of much debate.

Luke and Matthen both changed Jesus last words. Maybe they thought that Mark's version was a bit peculiar.
Since he was god, as well as man on the cross, he can't have been abandoned by god. So, the words make little sense indeed.
But I expect other explanations to be written shortly which contradict mine....

Lucy
 
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Chilldogg77

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I agree with Karl. I think that all during Jesus's life, he could feel the presence of the Father within Him, as His constant comfort and refuge. I think that at that time the Father hid His presence from Jesus, and that this must have been more painful and troubling for Jesus than all of His physical pain and humiliation at the hands of men. Sadly, this suffering was part of the giant cost of our redemption.
 
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homewardbound

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louiseandgary said:
After watching 'The passion of the Christ' again, I was wondering, after all the suffering Jesus endured, he kept his dignity and accepted the punishment as his fate Why, when the worst was over did he say 'My Lord, why have you forsaken me?' It almost seemed like he was desperate or angry with God for allowing this. It seems to go against the grain of Jesus' teachings.
My understanding is that Jesus is quoting Psalm 22. If you read it, particularly the first 24 verses, you'll see some interesting parallels with the crucifixion scene. Jesus wasn't angry or desperate with God...he had just endured one of the most severe beatings imaginable and was totally alone in carrying the sins of the world to the cross. Being human, I think his expression was simply one of feeling abandoned.
 
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KleinerApfel

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Holy God does not look upon sin, but condemns it.

Jesus volunteered to represent our sins there, so I agree with Chilldog: God the Father turned His face away.

Jesus was forsaken by His Father so that we don't ever have to go through that.

Also, as Karl points out, we cannot say He wasn't fully human, or hasn't felt abandonment, doubt and bewilderment.

God bless, Susana
 
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whatseekye

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I think you guys are right about the broken fellowship between Jesus and the Father. It is my understanding that because Jesus became Sin for us on the cross, and because God the Father is completely holy and has no fellowship with Sin, that it was understood that this would be a time of broken fellowship. THis would be more painful than the physical torture if you had always been one with God.

I was wondering about the scene in the movie where Jesus is being brought to Pontius Pilate by the Sanhedrin (or certain members of the Sanhedrin), and Jesus looks up to see a dove flutter up and away. Is that in the Bible? What did that indicate was happening spiritually? Did it mean that the Spirit left him at that time? What does that mean anyhow?
 
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karla

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Jesus, being God, could not have forsaken himself, nor is it possible for His human and divine natures to be separated with one talking to the other, so this is not a lament. The Jews of Jesus' time, not having bound copies of the Old Testament to carry around with them, studied the Word of God and committed it to memory. The devout Jew would pray the Psalms and other Scriptures from memory as he worked and traveled. The sacred writers of the New Testament knew that if they included a key phrase from a Psalm or other sacred writing, the entire context would be brought to the mind of the listener (reader). If I were to say "I pledge allegiance to the flag," any American hearer would immediately recall the rest of the pledge. "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?" are the opening words of Psalm 22 and Jesus, in praying this particular Psalm, was calling to the minds of all who heard Him the context of this Psalm; which foretold, in graphic detail, all that was happening to Him. It was a final reminder that He was the promised Messiah.


Psalms
Chapter 22
1 1 2 For the leader; according to "The deer of the dawn." A psalm of David. 2 My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? Why so far from my call for help, from my cries of anguish? 3 My God, I call by day, but you do not answer; by night, but I have no relief. 4 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the glory of Israel. 5 In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted and you rescued them. 6 To you they cried out and they escaped; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. 7 3 But I am a worm, hardly human, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. 8 All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: 9 "You relied on the LORD--let him deliver you; if he loves you, let him rescue you." 10 Yet you drew me forth from the womb, made me safe at my mother's breast. 11 Upon you I was thrust from the womb; since birth you are my God. 12 Do not stay far from me, for trouble is near, and there is no one to help. 13 4 Many bulls surround me; fierce bulls of Bashan encircle me. 14 They open their mouths against me, lions that rend and roar. 15 Like water my life drains away; all my bones grow soft. My heart has become like wax, it melts away within me. 16 5 As dry as a potsherd is my throat; my tongue sticks to my palate; you lay me in the dust of death. 17 Many dogs surround me; a pack of evildoers closes in on me. So wasted are my hands and feet 18 that I can count all my bones. They stare at me and gloat; 19 they divide my garments among them; for my clothing they cast lots. 20 But you, LORD, do not stay far off; my strength, come quickly to help me. 21 Deliver me from the sword, my forlorn life from the teeth of the dog. 22 Save me from the lion's mouth, my poor life from the horns of wild bulls. 23 6 Then I will proclaim your name to the assembly; in the community I will praise you: 24 "You who fear the LORD, give praise! All descendants of Jacob, give honor; show reverence, all descendants of Israel! 25 7 For God has not spurned or disdained the misery of this poor wretch, Did not turn away from me, but heard me when I cried out. 26 I will offer praise in the great assembly; my vows I will fulfill before those who fear him. 27 8 The poor will eat their fill; those who seek the LORD will offer praise. May your hearts enjoy life forever!" 28 All the ends of the earth will worship and turn to the LORD; All the families of nations will bow low before you. 29 For kingship belongs to the LORD, the ruler over the nations. 30 9 All who sleep in the earth will bow low before God; All who have gone down into the dust will kneel in homage. 31 And I will live for the LORD; my descendants will serve you. 32 The generation to come will be told of the Lord, that they may proclaim to a people yet unborn the deliverance you have brought.
 
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karla

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whatseekye said:
I was wondering about the scene in the movie where Jesus is being brought to Pontius Pilate by the Sanhedrin (or certain members of the Sanhedrin), and Jesus looks up to see a dove flutter up and away. Is that in the Bible? What did that indicate was happening spiritually? Did it mean that the Spirit left him at that time? What does that mean anyhow?

The following is from a website that discuss the symbolism in the movie.



The Dove

Description:

As he is dragged by the soldiers to the commencement of his trial, Jesus looks up and sees a dove flapping its wings overhead. The sight appears to strengthen and comfort him.

Symbolism:

Doves and turtle-doves were the only birds that could be offered in sacrifice, as they were clean according to the Mosaic Law (Genesis 15:9; Leviticus 5:7, 12:6; Luke 2:24). The dove is an emblem of peace (Genesis 8:8,10), purity (Psalm 68:13), and devoted affection (Song of Songs 1:15, 2:14). But above all, it’s a symbol of the Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2; Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32). The sight of the dove would have reminded Jesus of the presence of God’s Holy Spirit. It would have also reminded him of the love of his Father – and that his Father was pleased with his self-sacrificial obedience.

The Script:

Matthew 3:16

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.

Luke 3:22

And the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
 
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HoT-MetaL

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I believe it was because God is a Holy God... At that moment in time, Jesus had all the sin of the world in Time Past, Present, and Future. Because God was Holy, Jesus' Father had to turn his back on the sin. And thus, for those few moments Jesus was without his Father.

God Belss, metal.
 
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