Cremation

[joyfulthanks]

I realize this is a topic on which people's beliefs vary a great deal, (and it's not my intent to start a debate on cremation) but I want to get your take on something. I'm also not intending to condemn anyone here who wishes to be cremated, or who has chosen cremation for a loved one. This is issue is probably an adiaphoron, and I recognize that. However, this is something that has become important to me lately, and I want to see how you would respond to something.

Several years back when I was an evangelical, I used to have a very utilitarian view of things - including the human body. In a sense, I was almost a gnostic - seeing the body a bit like a shell that just contained "me," but wasn't really me. Once I was dead, I figured it didn't really matter much what happened to my body, since I would be in heaven with Christ. I'm not certain that I would have chosen cremation for myself, but I might have - given the fact that it cost a lot less, and I probably would have seen the expense of burial as a waste.

However, being exposed to more traditional Christian beliefs over the past several years and the theology behind them, I no longer see the body as utilitarian. I believe it is holy and precious to God. When I am dead, the body given to me by God will rise again at the final judgment - in a changed and resurrected form, yes -but my own body nontheless. I also believe that burial is a symbol of our resurrection hope in Christ, and stands as a testimony to those yet living of that hope.

I realize that many of you may not agree with this, and that's okay - I'm not trying to start a debate about this issue.

Here's my question. I don't know why, but something a relative of mine said to me awhile back is really bothering me today. She is a devout evangelical Christian, and when the subject of burial came up, she said something to the effect of "Just cremate me or do whatever's cheapest. It doesn't matter what happens to my body. I won't be there anyway." I think that some (but not all) of my other nearest relatives would share the same view.

A friend of ours died last week at about the age of 50, and was cremated. Maybe that's why this is on my mind, but I feel that I want to write a letter to my family members explaining the reasons that many Christians through the ages have traditionally embraced burial rather than cremation. I don't want to write a preachy "you're wrong if you don't believe this" type of letter, but rather an "I care about you, and want to give you something to think about" type of letter.

Maybe it's selfish on my part, but I don't want to find myself having to make this case to people later when they are in the throes of grief. I realize that the people I want to send this to may read what I have to say and disagree completely, and that is their right. More than anything else, I just want them to at least have had the opportunity to have heard another perspective.

I have already had to deal with this issue twice. For the first, a friend who died when I was still of my earlier mindset, we chose cremation - for eminently practical reasons. I regret that choice.

The second person died after my beliefs about these things had changed. It was a person whom we did not know well. Even though cremation seemed to everyone else to be the right thing in that circumstance, my husband and I chose to bury the person, and to make sure they had a service of Christian burial. I feel so grateful to God that He allowed us to have a part in that.

Having done both, I can say that it would be very difficult for me have a part in cremating someone again - even if it was their wish. Don't get me wrong - if it was their wish, I would do it, however, I think I would regret not having had the chance to make the case for burial for them while they were still alive. Then, if they chose otherwise, I would honor their choice.

What do you think? Would writing such a letter be a waste of time? If it were you, would you be offended to receive such a letter?

Thanks for your help.

 

[RadMan]

Well think of what happens to a body after it has been buried. Some decompose within a hundred years. Bones and all. Others last hundreds of years. The point is that all the Christians in the early church and believers in God from the OT have been worm food for centuries. The have been dissolved out into the ground around them and aren't recognizable as any biological human part. They have been broken down into their basic chemicals and in some cases carried to distant climes. How would that be diferent from cremation?

 

[joyfulthanks]

Thanks for your response, RadMan.

My degree was in English. I guess that makes me a person who appreciates symbolism. But I also think that the Bible is full of symbols, and that indicates that our God is one who values symbols, as well.

In the Bible, when someone's body was burned, it represented judgment. The Israelites, who recognized that they were created in the image of God, took great care with the bodies of their dead. Think of Joseph - who make his descendants promise to take his bones with them back to Israel. If his body hadn't mattered, he could have just stayed in Egypt. I can't remember who it was, but I do recall that God judged someone in the OT because they had burned the body of the king of Edom(?) to lime.

Conversely, burial is an important part of the Christian message. When the apostles preached the gospel, one of the key facts they also mentioned was that Jesus was buried - a precursor to His resurrection. Paul uses the metaphor of the body being planted like a seed, which will ultimately come forth in a different form in the resurrection. When we are baptised, we are said to be "buried with Christ by baptism into death."

Our culture is one of death. It is one that denies the reality of hell. It is a culture that is perfectly happy to think that we can just "cease to exist" when we die, rather than be raised to judgment or eternal life. Cremation can (I didn't say does) reinforce this idea in people's minds. We can conveniently "erase" our existence in a few moments time, and not be burdened with the reminder that we will rise again bodily to face the judgement.

When we bury someone, their body doesn't just go away overnight. It will most likely still be around and in one piece until after everyone who has known them has passed on. Yes, it will break down eventually, but not until it has borne silent testimony to its own generation of the truth of life, death, and bodily resurrection.

 

[Protoevangel]

Cremation was always the practice of the pagans. The early Christian Church always saw cremation to be as pagan as idol worship, and always buried their dead.

Cremation was forbidden in the RC Church until 1963, and in the Church of England until 1969. It's not surprising that it was accepted somewhat earlier into most Protestant churches. It's still forbidden (except of course, when necessary/required) in the Orthodox Church.

Cremation wiggled it's way into western Christian society in the 19th century (the first crematorium in America was built in Washington, Pennsylvania in 1876), largely by way of the free-thinkers and liberals.

But here we are, and the world wants us to "accept" cremation as equal to Christian burial. Certainly this alone will not damn souls... But it is part of a process of modernization and liberalization that I want to have nothing to do with.

I like the way you look at it joyfulthanks. Your perspective is quite refreshing.

 

[DaRev]

But (cremation) is part of a process of modernization and liberalization that I want to have nothing to do with.

There are those who take a rather literal view of Genesis 3:19 ("For you are dust and to dust you shall return.") and see cremation as a "return" to the dust from whence Mankind was formed.

I think another way to look at that passage is that when God formed the Man from the dust of the earth he was lifeless until God placed into him the Ruach, the breath/spirit of life. Adam (and Eve) were created to be physically immortal until sin entered in and death was the result. Once a person dies, the breath/spirit of life is seperated from the body and the body is what it originally was, merely "dust" regardless of whether cremated or not, for that is what it was formed from.

That being said, I agree with you, Dan. I personally find it revolting and if asked about it in the parish would counsel against it, even though it is considered adiaphora.

 

[joyfulthanks]

So am I crazy to think about writing something about this to my relatives? We're talking close relatives like parents and siblings here.

Do you think I could do it graciously, or would I come across as self-righteous?

 

[RadMan]

So am I going to hell if I'm creamated..........hmmmmm?

 

[DaRev]

So am I going to hell if I'm creamated..........hmmmmm?

Who said that?

 

[joyfulthanks]

So am I going to hell if I'm creamated..........hmmmmm?

You may not burn for all eternity for it, but you will burn for at least for the time it takes to reduce your body to ashes!

 

[porterross]

Unless I can be assured that my body will be placed in the earth so it can decompose naturally and return from whence it came, my wish is for it to be cremated. Once it is dust, the earth can have it and in a place of my choosing....I hope.

No one's going to change my mind about my wishes, but carry on.

 

[Protoevangel]

That being said, I agree with you, Dan. I personally find it revolting and if asked about it in the parish would counsel against it, even though it is considered adiaphora.

Yea. You know, generally, Orthodox are not afraid to die for their beliefs. But in countries where cremation is required (one example is Japan), the Church allows it without protest.

So am I crazy to think about writing something about this to my relatives? We're talking close relatives like parents and siblings here.

Do you think I could do it graciously, or would I come across as self-righteous?

I'm sorry, I could not even begin to answer this question for you. Perhaps if you present it as a dialog, and not in the spirit of "I'm going to fix you", but even that wouldn't work with my family...

So am I going to hell if I'm creamated..........hmmmmm?

lol... I think joyfulthanks had the best answer for this!

Unless I can be assured that my body will be placed in the earth so it can decompose naturally and return from whence it came, my wish is for it to be cremated. Once it is dust, the earth can have it and in a place of my choosing....I hope.

No one's going to change my mind about my wishes, but carry on.

My wife feels exactly the same way. Except she wants to be scattered at sea.

 

[Studeclunker]

My wife feels exactly the same way. Except she wants to be scattered at sea.

Hmmm... I can't quite remember the order exactly... but either your wife is trying to get there first or putting if off (LOL). Still, doesn't it say, "...first the sea shall render up her dead..." or something like that?

Joy, the letter you refer to is quite common. Most people call it a last will and testament. Nevertheless it is quite a levelheaded thing to want to do. Wise, actually. However, I would ask you to keep in mind that (as you already know) it isn't cheap to interr someone these days. So, pick out your plot, pay for it, even pick out your casket. None of this is morbid or silly at all. It's called taking care of your affairs.

Another thing you might want to consider. Many families have their own cemetaries and plots within cemetaries. My own family (on mother's side) has a cemetary in Northern Michigan that has been in use for about two hundred years. Family members are still being placed there. Many of the members of my Mother's family who moved out to California though are buried, in crypts, or in niches at Melrose Abbey in Orange. My family occupies some of the oldest sections of this place. If I choose to be placed in such a location it will be there with my parents, grandparents and their family. I will, however, be likely creamated. Transportation and cost are the reason why. When you're poor, there is no real choice.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Having worked in the Funeral Industry, I've seen a lot of Cremation, and personally I want no part of it.

Environmentally it's a bit of a disaster. It uses a lot of energy, and the older Crematoria burn very dirty. Canada is trying to clean up some of these older units.

Theologically though, I think it's OK.

 

[RadMan]

Having worked in the Funeral Industry, I've seen a lot of Cremation, and personally I want no part of it.

Environmentally it's a bit of a disaster. It uses a lot of energy, and the older Crematoria burn very dirty. Canada is trying to clean up some of these older units.

Theologically though, I think it's OK.

Since I weigh around 290 lbs I've been told that instead of burning up within hours it would probably take days to consume all my fat Like an oil spill on fire.

 

[joyfulthanks]

Joy, the letter you refer to is quite common. Most people call it a last will and testament.

Yes, I already have a will and have made my own wishes very clear. What I was asking about was the idea of writing a letter to my relatives (whom I suspect may have not given much thought about reasons to choose burial) just giving them a different perspective to think about before they made their final choice.

 

[DaRev]

Unless I can be assured that my body will be placed in the earth so it can decompose naturally and return from whence it came, my wish is for it to be cremated. Once it is dust, the earth can have it and in a place of my choosing....I hope.

No one's going to change my mind about my wishes, but carry on.

In a literal sense, that would have to be somewhere in the southwestern United States (Arizona?). In reality, once the life breath/spirit is seperated from the body, it is already in it's "original" state, that being a collection of chemicals that are found in the "dust" of the earth.

The growing trend nowadays are "green cemetaries". No caskets, no vaults, just a hole in the ground.

 

[BigNorsk]

Since I weigh around 290 lbs I've been told that instead of burning up within hours it would probably take days to consume all my fat Like an oil spill on fire.

I guess we could just have a wick stuck in us and use us for a candle. Maybe people would only light us on the aniversary of our passing. That'd be a bit unique.

Marv

 

[PreachersWife2004]

My aunt wanted to be cremated but my grandparents, for their own sake, couldn't do it.

Since I will be dead, I really don't care what they do with my body. Well, to a point...I mean, I wouldn't want a necrophiliac getting ahold of it or anything. But I have down that I wish to donate my body to Christian scientists and I hope that maybe my organs can help someone.

In terms of cremation, I am neither here nor there on it, but it's not something I personally want to do. Matt wanted to until he heard that it's as costly as a regular burial. He wants to be buried cheaply. He tells me to just get a pine box and bury him on the side of the road.

 

[RadMan]

I guess we could just have a wick stuck in us and use us for a candle. Maybe people would only light us on the aniversary of our passing. That'd be a bit unique.

Marv

Then the words of a song "Comeon baby light my fire" would be appropriate.

 

[DaRev]

My aunt wanted to be cremated but my grandparents, for their own sake, couldn't do it.

Since I will be dead, I really don't care what they do with my body. Well, to a point...I mean, I wouldn't want a necrophiliac getting ahold of it or anything. But I have down that I wish to donate my body to Christian scientists and I hope that maybe my organs can help someone.

In terms of cremation, I am neither here nor there on it, but it's not something I personally want to do. Matt wanted to until he heard that it's as costly as a regular burial. He wants to be buried cheaply. He tells me to just get a pine box and bury him on the side of the road.

It also should be noted that many (if not all) crematoriums do not cremate single bodies, so an urn of ashes very well contains a mixture of people's cremains. That's not a very comforting prospect in my mind.