Cremation

[Rilian]

I don't want to come off too strong or offend anybody. Apologies if I do.

 

[Alexis OCA]

I don't want to come off too strong or offend anybody. Apologies if I do.

I think we are cruising along here just fine. Very informative and charitable posts.

 

[Matrona]

Yes, the RC does allow cremation and now even allows a church funeral service with the ashes present. Meaning of course the cremation can be done before the service. Although, most do the cremation shortly after the service.

I thought RC's required ashes to be entombed and for the cremation to be completed after the requiem mass? That was a point of contention in the Terri Schiavo case IIRC, Michael wanted her cremated immediately and her ashes scattered and her parents complained that it was against RC teaching. I guess it isn't against RC teaching after all?

 

[vanshan]

I don't know the laws in other states, but in our state you don't have to use a funeral home and if you do they must allow you to furnish your own coffin, cutting down significantly on the funeral expenses. I will be buried very cheaply I hope.

This is a little off topic but, I read an article stating that it is also not traditional for Orthodox Christians to have their bodies embalmed to make them look as though they are only sleeping. We want to come face to face with the reality of death, not pretty up the departed, making them look as though they are just taking a nap.

Basil

 

[Alexis OCA]

I thought RC's required ashes to be entombed and for the cremation to be completed after the requiem mass? That was a point of contention in the Terri Schiavo case IIRC, Michael wanted her cremated immediately and her ashes scattered and her parents complained that it was against RC teaching. I guess it isn't against RC teaching after all?

It is at the discretion of the local bishop wether or not he will allow a Mass with the ashes. Some bishops require that the cremation be done after the Mass some don't. I do believe the Church does hold that a service should be held one way or the other. For Michael to cremate without the benefit of a Mass seems cruel.

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

This is a little off topic but, I read an article stating that it is also not traditional for Orthodox Christians to have their bodies embalmed to make them look as though they are only sleeping. We want to come face to face with the reality of death, not pretty up the departed, making them look as though they are just taking a nap.

This is my understanding as well. That Orthodoxy has always opposed embalming (it was, you will remember, practiced by the Egyptians) and that it is felt that embalming a) is disrespectful to the body (ie. organs removed) and b) is a denial of theosis and the resurrection.

We speak of bodies being found incorrupt. This does not mean that they were embalmed, but that God - by His grace - has revealed the sanctity of these saints to us through their incorrupt remains. Theosis sanctifies all of a person, not just their soul... and thus works against the natural order, with is Death and decay.

As for the resurrection, we expect our bodies to be resurrected... and thus we treat them respectfully. Moreover, embalming - the artificial preservation of the body - seems to say that there is no resurrection, and so the best we can do to immortalize the dead is to preserve the body indefinitely.

 

[MariaRegina]

I don't know the laws in other states, but in our state you don't have to use a funeral home and if you do they must allow you to furnish your own coffin, cutting down significantly on the funeral expenses. I will be buried very cheaply I hope.

This is a little off topic but, I read an article stating that it is also not traditional for Orthodox Christians to have their bodies embalmed to make them look as though they are only sleeping. We want to come face to face with the reality of death, not pretty up the departed, making them look as though they are just taking a nap.

Basil

Dear Basil:

I live in California where an average funeral avoiding cremation can be anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000. And if you provide your own coffin, then the funeral homes are allowed to add a surcharge. The deceased must be now be buried in a lead enclosure and that adds to the cost and contaminates the environment. Stupid. Then there is the cost of the grave or above ground crypt. So it could easily exceed $20,000. This is criminal. It seems that the powers that be are forcing people to have cremations because they cannot afford otherwise.

Is there an adjacent state that isn't so costly? I just don't like the mandatory draconian laws in California.

YSIC
Elizabeth

p.s. praying that the Lord will come and I won't have to be buried at all.

 

[ufonium2]

Is there an adjacent state that isn't so costly? I just don't like the mandatory draconian laws in California.

I would assume that, as with almost everything, any adjacent state would be less costly. And California is moving towards many more such draconian laws. For instance, San Francisco was considering (or may have already implemented) a tax on grocery bags. Stores don't want it; they were fine providing the bags for free. But SF saw it as a way to increase revenue (and of course up their ridiculous cost of living a little more) and try to force people to care about the environment at the same time. The stupid part is, they are also taxing (environmentally friendly) paper bags. So the only way to get around it is to carry your own bags around all the time in case you may want to buy something. Yeesh.

 

[Rilian]

Aria, I'll ask my wife tonight what we paid in Washington State when my father in law died four years ago.

 

[katherine2001]

I know that the OCA website (www.oca.org) has at least a couple of answers to questions about cremation in it's Q & A section. You can find out a lot about why the Orthodox Church is opposed to cremation.

 

[Matrona]

Does anybody know anything about the laws in South Carolina regarding this kind of stuff?

I'd like to write some kind of "will" outlining my wishes should something happen to me, including my wish to be buried as opposed to cremated, to be an organ donor if possible, and to not be embalmed.

 

[Kolya]

I would assume that, as with almost everything, any adjacent state would be less costly. And California is moving towards many more such draconian laws. For instance, San Francisco was considering (or may have already implemented) a tax on grocery bags. Stores don't want it; they were fine providing the bags for free. But SF saw it as a way to increase revenue (and of course up their ridiculous cost of living a little more) and try to force people to care about the environment at the same time. The stupid part is, they are also taxing (environmentally friendly) paper bags. So the only way to get around it is to carry your own bags around all the time in case you may want to buy something. Yeesh.

I'll go off topic for a second here then I'll continue: Our whole country has that law. We always got the bags for free. Now, to "prevent pollution", we get taxed on them. But every time we go to the store, we buy bags anyway. I'm not scratching out my old bags to take back!

Back to topic - I'm the frist Orthodox member of our family. (And I firmly stand by all that the Orthodox Church teaches)

All my relatives who have reposed have been cremated, including both my parents and both sets of grand parents.
My father went to sleep 47 days after my Chrismation. As he was old and frail at the time, I never did tell him that I had changed Faiths. I reasoned he would find out soon enough anyway and be glad for me. I did break the news to the family at his memorial service and it did cause a bit of tension, which has eased somewhat now.
My Father and Grandfather were both clergy in their denomination, yet they saw no wrong in cremation, reasoning that one receives a new body at the Resurection. They reasoned that many martyrs were burnt at the stake, but they will receive new bodies.

Please understand that I am totally Orthodox now and my will stipulates an Orthodox Burial. Just my 2 kopeks...

 

[Erik3]

Thanks for the responses everyone,

This brings me to another question, that Matrona briefly mentioned, Organ Donation.

What is the Orthodo teaching on Organ Donation?

Thanks, God Bless

 

[MariaRegina]

Let me ask a brief question:

If an Orthodox Christian believes that he/she should not be cremated or embalmed (organs removed) because his body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and all the members of his body have been sanctified by the reception of the Holy Sacraments, particularly Holy Communion,

Then, wouldn't organ donation to a non-Orthodox party be frowned upon since we have closed communion?

 

[Vasya Davidovich]

My understanding was that the more conservative Orthodox frown upon organ donation and feel that it is not Orthodox.

I would be interested on a friendly debate on the matter, though.