Creations.

[bhsmte]

"Atheists are regarded as evil just for not believing in any god," I've often wondered why theists dislike atheists particularly rather than someone from another religion who also doesn't believe in their god/gods (and in some cases are violent about it) but I think it's because atheists understand that there doesn't seem to be higher power out there and that we are in control of our own circumstances (as society/empathy/self control/ etc permits) and they think that the higher power is being usurped in some way.

The dislike you describe in some at least, has much to do with being a threat to theists beliefs, IMO.

 

[paulm50]

So what should He have given them in lieu of free will?

Complete devotion. He's god, he could of seen he had made the mistake and gone back and corrected it. Think of the billions of lives saved.

 

[AV1611VET]

Complete devotion.

He's already got that with the Godhead.

Try again.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Complete devotion. He's god, he could of seen he had made the mistake and gone back and corrected it. Think of the billions of lives saved.

God cannot change His mind because He is omniscient. If He knew beforehand He'd make a mistake, He would never make it in the first place.

I've often wondered why theists dislike atheists particularly rather than someone from another religion

Motive

 

[asherahSamaria]

God cannot change His mind because He is omniscient. If He knew beforehand He'd make a mistake, He would never make it in the first place.



Motive

What motive exactly?

 

[paulm50]

He's already got that with the Godhead.

Try again.

So you tell us why he didn't tell the scribes the truth. He misled them quite often, so include Creation, Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel being farmers, wives, other tribes, the Flood, and when you finish that. I will ask you to prove more of the bible tales.

 

[paulm50]

God cannot change His mind because He is omniscient. If He knew beforehand He'd make a mistake, He would never make it in the first place.

So he wanted Adam and Eve to sin. Wanted all the billions to die.

That makes more sense than him not going back and correcting his mistake.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you tell us why he didn't tell the scribes the truth. He misled them quite often, so include Creation, Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel being farmers, wives, other tribes, the Flood, and when you finish that. I will ask you to prove more of the bible tales.

I'll pass.

Some problems are spiritual, rather than intellectual.

You can usually tell the difference.

The more information you give them, the more they frown.

 

[paulm50]

I'll pass.

Some problems are spiritual, rather than intellectual.

You can usually tell the difference.

The more information you give them, the more they frown.

I can tell the difference. The OT is a book written for a Bronze Age tribe. The Israelites were never a great tribe, even today they have to rely on the West to survive. The books was were to raise their spirits and make them seem greater than they were.

After Paul and Peter took what Jesus wrote, changed it to suit a different set of people, it became Christianity. Why Christians hang onto the OT is a mystery. Does their spirit require it?

Not that's something we can discuss.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

So he wanted Adam and Eve to sin. Wanted all the billions to die.

Mankind reaped what they sowed. People just have a hard time with accountability. It's mankind's fault. You're going to sit there and put it on God who gave you life in the first place that there's suffering in the world? Where does that suffering come from? The sins of man. You act like suffering is just some invisible entity that assaults us.

 

[paulm50]

Mankind reaped what they sowed. People just have a hard time with accountability. It's mankind's fault. You're going to sit there and put it on God who gave you life in the first place that there's suffering in the world? Where does that suffering come from? The sins of man. You act like suffering is just some invisible entity that assaults us.

I was answering someone who said god wanted to allow a faulty model, one that would sin, to continue sinning. I will admit we humans do a lot of sinning, because of the way we were created.

Seems others are trying to shift the blame. If a car has no brakes, it can't stop. That's not the fault of the car, it's the fault of the maker. We wouldn't be suffering if the brakes had been made properly.

Just applying some reasoning and logic. Can't apply the brakes, I was't given any.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

I was answering someone who said god wanted to allow a faulty model, one that would sin, to continue sinning. I will admit we humans do a lot of sinning, because of the way we were created.

Seems others are trying to shift the blame. If a car has no brakes, it can't stop. That's not the fault of the car, it's the fault of the maker. We wouldn't be suffering if the brakes had been made properly.

Just applying some reasoning and logic. Can't apply the brakes, I was't given any.

~Isaiah 45:7~
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

~Numbers 23:19~
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

What's interesting in Isaiah, which is often overlooked, is that he is speaking of Creation itself. Refer to the red.
In Numbers, it is revealed plainly that He does not repent, lie, or do something in vain. The verse is translated in certain biblical versions to actually say He doesn't change His mind, which can be deduced with a bit more analysis either way.

So it's not like it isn't revealed. A lot of Christians have difficulty handling the totality of these revelations, as God is also one of grace as the apostles teach through Jesus in the New Testament.

 

[paulm50]

There you go, god created evil. " I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

If we were created in his image, does that mean more than the visual image?

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

There you go, god created evil. " I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

If we were created in his image, does that mean more than the visual image?

Us being made in His image and likeness is in two primary things.
First, we are the great imitators of God. We have a preeminence over creatures, have the capacity to know good from evil, have minds for creation, reason, and are the apex of sentience.
Secondly, man has a threefold nature as does God. We have a soul, spirit, and body which is a reflection of the Trinity. Humans are the closest thing to God and that is why we are the apple of His eye.

 

[paulm50]

Us being made in His image and likeness is in two primary things.
First, we are the great imitators of God. We have a preeminence over creatures, have the capacity to know good from evil, have minds for creation, reason, and are the apex of sentience.
Secondly, man has a threefold nature as does God. We have a soul, spirit, and body which is a reflection of the Trinity. Humans are the closest thing to God and that is why we are the apple of His eye.

Does god have the ability to see what he made right and what he made wrong?

That's what this pivots on. Whether he wanted us like this, or he was unable to change us, or unwilling. Maybe if we are the closest to him. Imagine a god looking down on us like a giant Game of Thrones for his entertainment.

 

[Swan7]

The Wickedness of Man
Genesis 6:5-7

God grieved for everything He created and then set a trail of signs in the Old Testament of when Jesus would come to die for all our sins.

John 3:16-17

 

[bhsmte]

The Wickedness of Man
Genesis 6:5-7

God grieved for everything He created and then set a trail of signs in the Old Testament of when Jesus would come to die for all our sins.

John 3:16-17

Did God know he would have to grieve over what he created, or was he surprised?

 

[paulm50]

The Wickedness of Man
Genesis 6:5-7

God grieved for everything He created and then set a trail of signs in the Old Testament of when Jesus would come to die for all our sins.

John 3:16-17

So why wait so long and fail with his son? Seem logical to start again and save a lot of grief.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Does god have the ability to see what he made right and what he made wrong?

That's what this pivots on. Whether he wanted us like this, or he was unable to change us, or unwilling. Maybe if we are the closest to him. Imagine a god looking down on us like a giant Game of Thrones for his entertainment.

There's a holy inquisition going on in Game of Thrones right now. Do you agree with their actions, despite the monstrosities?
Because if God came down to really serve militant justice, it would be much worse then that. In fact, it's been demonstrated, such as the Flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The issue with a notion that God could come down and just 'change us' is in the fact that He cannot compromise His perfection. Such is a direct contradiction to God altogether. He cannot simply merit sin with grace without balance. It is the reason why the Crucifixion of Christ was necessary in the first place, and before that, eye for eye and sacrifice.

Reality is in itself an object of grace, it exists by the very nature of God to create. The Big Bang theory was theorized by a Catholic priest. A lot of people don't know that because of how adopted it's become in science and secular bias. But he proposed that this would be how God would create the universe, and that mankind are not necessarily central to all He created.
Just as He created all the universe for His pleasure, so to is man for the same purpose. The Bible declares that those who are favored by God are an elect chosen before the foundation of the world. This inevitably gives way to the idea that God created other people to destruction.

 

[AV1611VET]

I can tell the difference. The OT is a book written for a Bronze Age tribe. The Israelites were never a great tribe, even today they have to rely on the West to survive. The books was were to raise their spirits and make them seem greater than they were.

Is Israel the Promised Land?