Creations.

[paulm50]

Nope that is just interpreting it wrong. Light is not mentioned anywhere else in the Old Testament without being associated with the Sun or stars.

Hebrew is a language of very few words compared to English, and Genesis is quite clearly referring to as it appears on earth, it says things like darkness covered the waters, and the evening and morning the first day etc etc.
The word in Hebrew for 'made' is the same word used for
to produce, to prepare, attend to, put in order, to observe, celebrate, to appoint, ordain, institute, to bring about

It does not imply God physically made the Sun on day 4, only that he made it appear on day 4 , which is scientifically accurate.

If they had meant the Sun, they would of said Luminaries. As they did later on.

As for day 4, if there's no sun, there's no days.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0928/Which-came-first-Earth-s-water-or-the-sun

 

[paulm50]

Yes, indeed.

The Brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Andersen, Aesop, Mark Twain, Charles Darwin ...

Books and religions are tools. Religion as a tool has bound communities together that otherwise wouldn't of propered as well.

A Central Rule, telling people when to plant, reap, store, hunt, etc. Then how to live in a community. When hard times came, due to nature, there was a way out. All the people had to do was listen to the shaman, priest or witch doctor and he would ask the gods what was wrong. He would come back and say the gods weren't happy with the people and he was punishing them. To please the gods, they demanded sacrifices, from burning incense to human sacrifices. And then everything would be fine, if the people listened to the priests who knew what the gods demanded of them.

The ultimate sacrifice, one's life, given serving god. Would get the ultimate reward, a guaranteed place in heaven. Other guarantees could be secured with gifts of money of recruiting more followers, who usually gave money or services.

This is the basis of, to my knowledge, most religions. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Along with far earlier religions all sang a similar song.

So were they man made, or inspired by gods or your god?

 

[AV1611VET]

A Central Rule, telling people when to plant, reap, store, hunt, etc. Then how to live in a community. When hard times came, due to nature, there was a way out. All the people had to do was listen to the shaman, priest or witch doctor and he would ask the gods what was wrong. He would come back and say the gods weren't happy with the people and he was punishing them. To please the gods, they demanded sacrifices, from burning incense to human sacrifices. And then everything would be fine, if the people listened to the priests who knew what the gods demanded of them.

A Central Rule, telling people when to plant, reap, store, hunt, etc. Then how to live in a community. When hard times came, due to nature, there was a way out. All the people had to do was listen to the scientist, politician or doctor and he would analyze what was wrong. He would come back and say the problem was [whatever] and she (Ma Nature) was just doing her thing. To please them, they demanded money or votes, from cash to credit cards. And then everything should be fine, if the people listened to the scientists, doctors, and politicians who knew what the land, bodies, or communities demanded of them.

For the most part they are correct, until they venture into the area of going up against the Bible.

Then they can all take a hike.

 

[SkyWriting]

The only things created were religions. There are too many, too different, too split to be the work of a god.

Then they are natural. Stop fighting against nature.
People are always complaining against things they can't change.
Try a 12 step program against complaining.

 

[paulm50]

A Central Rule, telling people when to plant, reap, store, hunt, etc. Then how to live in a community. When hard times came, due to nature, there was a way out. All the people had to do was listen to the scientist, politician or doctor and he would analyze what was wrong. He would come back and say the problem was [whatever] and she (Ma Nature) was just doing her thing. To please them, they demanded money or votes, from cash to credit cards. And then everything should be fine, if the people listened to the scientists, doctors, and politicians who knew what the land, bodies, or communities demanded of them.

Agree, it's a standard political, management process. The difference with doctors and scientists is they are trained and do a lot of research into their subjects. Where as clergy and politicians make it up as they go along.

Still, Politicians won't burn you at the stake for voting for the other side.

For the most part they are correct, until they venture into the area of going up against the Bible.

Then they can all take a hike.

Yes doctors and scientists are mostly right, after years of study, based on centuries of learning they have the answers. Better than a bunch of old men sitting in a room 1,000s of years ago and deciding to tell the people this is what god told them.

Imagine today a priests arriving on Earth and telling you the religions have it wrong, the churches are leading you astray. Would you listen. Even if it was proven he was right. Or would you tell him to take a kike?

 

[paulm50]

Then they are natural. Stop fighting against nature.
People are always complaining against things they can't change.
Try a 12 step program against complaining.

The change to Christianity is happening. People are leaving it. I'm complaining that's because the church insists on dtaying in the past.

 

[SkyWriting]

The change to Christianity is happening. People are leaving it. I'm complaining that's because the church insists on staying in the past.

Try a 12 step program for your problem dealing with reality.

 

[paulm50]

Try a 12 step program for your problem dealing with reality.

https://dearephesusdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/empty-churches1.pdf

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes doctors and scientists are mostly right, after years of study, based on centuries of learning they have the answers.

That's the way God set it up.

Better than a bunch of old men sitting in a room 1,000s of years ago and deciding to tell the people this is what god told them.

No argument there.

Imagine today a priests arriving on Earth and telling you the religions have it wrong, the churches are leading you astray.

LOL -- I do that now.

Would you listen.

Not really.

I've heard it about 1k times.

In fact, one poster here (Coulter) prompted me to purchase Larson's Book of World Religions and Alternative Spirituality.

Even if it was proven he was right.

It wouldn't take aliens from space for that.

My niece could do that.

Or would you tell him to take a ...?

I sure hope that was a typo.

I would highly advise you to fix that before the moderators see it.

 

[AV1611VET]

The change to Christianity is happening. People are leaving it.

Right on target.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[paulm50]

This is how east it is to create a religion, or church and get people to donate money or just control them.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is how east it is to create a religion, or church and get people to donate money or just control them.

I know of a Seventh Day Adventist who visited the Peoples' Temple (Jim Jones) and was coerced to join.

He wouldn't, because he knew his Bible too well and disagreed with Mr. Jones on several key issues.

He refused to join and escaped death because he knew his Bible so well.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is how easy it is to create a religion, or church and get people to donate money or just control them.

Some just use a paycheck.

 

[SkyWriting]

Some just use a paycheck.

https://dearephesusdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/empty-churches1.pdf

You picked the one yellow country with no population growth.

 

[paulm50]

I know of a Seventh Day Adventist who visited the Peoples' Temple (Jim Jones) and was coerced to join.

He wouldn't, because he knew his Bible too well and disagreed with Mr. Jones on several key issues.

He refused to join and escaped death because he knew his Bible so well.

And anyone who didn't believe in the nonsense, wouldn't be anywhere near Jones. The evidence of weak minded, easily led people clinging desperately to religious cults is undeniable.

Look at Seventh Day Adventist foundation, beliefs and prophecies, continually banging on about the Second coming or similar events and they keep getting disappointed.

Some just use a paycheck.

Yes many of these churches run the Tithe System. By lying about what the bible really says. Amazing how some things can change, and others aren't allowed to. The beneficiary is usually the church. The worse culprits are seed churches.

You picked the one yellow country with no population growth.

OK here's a few more graphs.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Christainity needs to reinvent itself in the sense that the state has taken over schooloing, welfare etc - traditional "corporal and spiritual works of mercy". Thats why I support the RCC though, and some Baptists especially in my province, not because of the theology - anayysed and disected "scientifically" - so much as their past and present efforts in this regard.

From the outside, especially a skeptics take, it may appear to all be about irrationality, herd instinct etc,. I can understand that - we all have our psychological biases.


But thats not quite the balance atheists etc are often claiming to bring to the debate. Expecially if rationality is defined psychologically as "what, gven available information, is in the interests of the agent" rather than a theoretical rationality which aims at especially sensory or mathematical truth....

Is it in ones interests to have safety net night shelters, soup kitchens, prision visits, etc? Of course, and thats "rationality" you just dont want to ignore. Expecially when I never saw an atheist soup run, in this city, in my whole life.

RAwls theory of justice (minimising the suffering of the poorest and worse off), and Christian ethics (seeing the wounded Christ in the suffentins of the world) , they're not to far apart?

 

[paulm50]

Christainity needs to reinvent itself in the sense that the state has taken over schooling, welfare etc - traditional "corporal and spiritual works of mercy". Thats why I support the RCC though, and some Baptists especially in my province, not because of the theology - anayysed and disected "scientifically" - so much as their past and present efforts in this regard.

From the outside, especially a skeptics take, it may appear to all be about irrationality, herd instinct etc,. I can understand that - we all have our psychological biases.


But thats not quite the balance atheists etc are often claiming to bring to the debate. Expecially if rationality is defined psychologically as "what, gven available information, is in the interests of the agent" rather than a theoretical rationality which aims at especially sensory or mathematical truth....

Is it in ones interests to have safety net night shelters, soup kitchens, prision visits, etc? Of course, and thats "rationality" you just dont want to ignore. Expecially when I never saw an atheist soup run, in this city, in my whole life.

RAwls theory of justice (minimising the suffering of the poorest and worse off), and Christian ethics (seeing the wounded Christ in the suffentins of the world) , they're not to far apart?

I was with you right up to the RCC bit. That's a church that really needs to get itself out of the past.

Atheist running charities. Not sure if the main ones are Faith or Non-Faith led. Id however agree with you about churches getting out there and helping others. We should all be doing that.

 

[AV1611VET]

And anyone who didn't believe in the nonsense, wouldn't be anywhere near Jones.

That goes without saying.

The evidence of weak minded, easily led people clinging desperately to religious cults is undeniable.

Don't think you're not included in that.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

[SkyWriting]

The beneficiary is usually the church. The worst culprits are seed churches.

I was curious about the worst of the worst.
But this is what you provided:

Mustard Seed Foundation

Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists

W.A. Church (Bures) Ltd. is a seed production company

Church of Seed by O Studio Architects

Named the Church of Seed, the building on Mount Luofu is formed of three curved walls that curl around the interior like the casing around the ..

 

[paulm50]

That goes without saying. Don't think you're not included in that.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

As
I don't accept what people 2,000 years and more told me to believe. Questions everything, I'm safer than those clinging on to the hope that something invisible will save them.

I was curious about the worst of the worst.
But this is what you provided:

Mustard Seed Foundation

Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists

W.A. Church (Bures) Ltd. is a seed production company

Church of Seed by O Studio Architects

Named the Church of Seed, the building on Mount Luofu is formed of three curved walls that curl around the interior like the casing around the ..

Some need prosecuting for fraud. Even large established churches have Tithe systems. The really big ones like RCC, have accumulated so much wealth over the centuries, often through fraud and a form of slavery, they no longer need to take people's money. I was shocked that churches worshiping a man who owned little but the clothes he stood in, needs the biggest building in the town, or cities. Until recently.