Creationists, where do you get your facts?

[Hespera]

... are you a student at the "U"? You obviously know nothing about the real world of science. It is POLITICAL, as in if a theory goes against the money, you don't endorse it. Professors get their scholarly articles pulled from publication and, in some extreme cases lose their TENURE. Do you understand that it almost takes an act of congress to lose tenure? So, of course I would get shredded for what I believe because it goes against what Senior and Board scientist promote. You will shocked to find out that most scientist in charge don't believe the same stuff they teach you, and you will learn if you go to Grad school that what you learn as an undergrad is pretty much bollocks. Anyway I appreciate your sophomoric response.

Just one year of grad school so far. Been around college people all my life tho, as both parents taught. I'm not the naif here.

You would get shredded for having no data to support your ideas, which you clearly would not have. You'd get shredded for making statements that you cant support with any research data.

Of course, the standard theocreologist line is that science is all about dogma and politics and party line. We do understand that is projecting, of course, since that truly is all that religion is about.

There is a much bigger world out there. In China, people really dont care what Christians think, or dont think. They are not concerned with fads or trends or politics in american colleges, either.

If all the Western scientists so foolishly held to these crumbly theories, there are plenty of non western scientists who'd gleefully knock their silly theories apart.

Of course, they dont find evidence for a "flood". They wont agree with your dating either. The oldest archaeological site in my home area is 30,000 years old. * They wont be impressed with your no-knowledge genetics trying to say its less than half that age. So solly Charlie.

No the people with the foolish theories, if they may be graced with such an august name for notions with no data, are the ones who try to fit reality to the bible. Scarecly worth dismissive contempt in the real world of science.

The "real world of science" as you call it certainly involves some deadly dull and boring work, and that is generally where people with physics degrees end up. If that is the real world where someone has ended up, to their disappointment and resentment, well, its understandable that they would look for some transcendence. Its only human.

If such a person can figure out some way he knows better'n all them big scientists, some way he has the intellectual moral spiritual high gorund on them, well its only natural to try to convince himself that its so.

All claims are empty with no data, tho, my friend. Bring forth your data and you will be recognized. Surely you dont propose to excuse your failure to do so with the claim that all them scientists are involved in a conspiracy to suppress the (T)ruth, are you?

If so this would be a good time to cut to the chase, and say so. This is a science forum. They do conspiracy stuff on "Coast to Coast".


*Chinese Archaeology

 

[Wedjat]

*ahem*

Topic? Perhaps we should return to it.
Boku, where do you get your numbers from?

 

[BokuWaKurohyou]

.

 

[BokuWaKurohyou]

.

 

[hangback]

nandemo iiyo...

I agree, what ever, it's only creationism so who cares.

 

[Split Rock]

Who was here first?

Evolutionists or non-evolutionists?

Whose agenda is muscling in on whose?

We just want our territory back.

"Anti-evolution agenda" indeed [rolls eyes].

Quit making it sound like you guys are the victims.

Yes, we know that your agenda is an anti-science agenda. You have told us that already. I was being generous in narrowing it more than I really should have. *sorry*

And yes, I know that you creationists want to go back to the 1930s, when the teaching of evolution was banned in a number of states, and ignored in most others. Of course, most creationists claim they just want "parity," but thanks for reminding us the truth.

Finally, I apologize for trying to take the "victim" mantle away from you, AVET. I know that you own it, which is why you know just what it was like for Jesus when he was crucified on the cross.

 

[Wedjat]

nandemo iiyo...

Sorry what?
Mind answering in English?

 

[Bushido216]

And once more, this is NOT a "science forum," it is a Christian Forum (hence the URL) that so happens to host THREADS about science TOPICS. In fact, this particular POST was NOT about science.

This particular sub-forum is a science forum.

This thread was a science thread.

If you're not talking about science, why are you here in this thread in this sub-forum?

 

[hangback]

nandemo iiyo...

Sorry what?
Mind answering in English?

Japanese: nan demo ii yo = whatever is fine.

Or as we say: Whatever.

 

[Wedjat]

Yeah, that doesn't actually answer my original question.
Thanks for the translation though.

 

[hangback]

Yeah, that doesn't actually answer my original question.
Thanks for the translation though.

I don't think BokuWaKurohyou wanted to answer your original question, he didn't want to embarrass himself, creationists are not stupid, they know that they must lie to themselves and everyone else if they want to remain creationists, it's all part of being a creationist, they get laughed at from all sides so they would need to be pretty dumb not to realise something was wrong with their beliefs.

 

[hangback]

Error

 

[Wedjat]

I don't think BokuWaKurohyou wanted to answer your original question, he didn't want to embarrass himself, creationists are not stupid, they know that they must lie to themselves and everyone else if they want to remain creationists, it's all part of being a creationist, they get laughed at from all sides so they would need to be pretty dumb not to realise something was wrong with their beliefs.

I was hoping he could explain to me how you calculate a constant rate of evolutionary change using physics.

 

[Hespera]

Lol, why do people always ask for data on a discussion forum? Do you expect someone to email you a copy of their LaTex file, or a PDF of their research? Do the research yourself; no one on here is a publication for a journal so stop acting like you are entitled to data. Agree, disagree or entertain the content of this forum but don't act like you are entitled to data that would otherwise be tedious and painstaking to come up with.

Secondly, I never once stated that anything was conspiracy. I told you to look up the information yourself and you would see. Anything that sounds fishy to you - look it up. But, how dare you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist and surpressing the truth when you listen to Steve Quayle, Coast to Coast.

And once more, this is NOT a "science forum," it is a Christian Forum (hence the URL) that so happens to host THREADS about science TOPICS. In fact, this particular POST was NOT about science.

"lol"? I didnt ask you for any data. I know you dont have any. I just spoke of the potential embarrassment of going into a thesis defense with no data.

Regarding conspiracy, you might look at the difference between asking a question and making an accusaiton. For example, you are accusing me of accusing you; I merely asksd a question.

But never mind, we thought perhaps you had something to say.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Lol, why do people always ask for data on a discussion forum? Do you expect someone to email you a copy of their LaTex file, or a PDF of their research?

Speaking from personal experience I was in a discussion on this forum very recently with another scientist and I personally downloaded and crunched the numbers in JMP and R statistics programs and posted the results on the thread.

So data can and is traded here.

Do the research yourself; no one on here is a publication for a journal so stop acting like you are entitled to data.

But we are entitled to sources, citations and, as in my own personal case, actual data processing and results.

Agree, disagree or entertain the content of this forum but don't act like you are entitled to data that would otherwise be tedious and painstaking to come up with.

Tedious and paintstaking are often the hallmarks of robust science as you no doubt know.

And once more, this is NOT a "science forum," it is a Christian Forum (hence the URL) that so happens to host THREADS about science TOPICS. In fact, this particular POST was NOT about science.

Sadly this is actually is a science and religion discussion. Ergo science becomes part of it. If it were completely devoid of science then it would have no value to some of us.

 

[thaumaturgy]

nandemo iiyo...

Let me get this straight. You are a graduate physicist from one of the top Ivies in the U.S. and this is how you respond to a question requesting a source for your data?

Am I correct in that you are effectively saying (in Japanese) "Whatever"?

 

[Nostromo]

Is this a bad time to admit that Harun Yahya is my hero?

 

[thaumaturgy]

I was hoping he could explain to me how you calculate a constant rate of evolutionary change using physics.

What I am fascinated by is that he sounds like his bona fides would make for very compelling reading on this forum! Unlike many creationists who barely ever darken the doors of a science class, Boku sounded like he had some science chops. I personally would be very interested to hear the details of his thinking.

I am also one of the people on here who has in the past provided large amounts of data and citations in my posts, so I tend to assume other scientists are equally interested in data and citations.

Of course there is an underlying alternate hypothesis to all this, but one I will not entertain at this time.

 

[AintNoMonkey]

I'll entertain it: Dude's a liar. Tell us you're a scientist, but then act in a way that no scientist (in my experience, or, apparently, the rest of yours) ever would. Spout the classic 'I've got evidence, but I WON'T share it with you' creationist line. Become fantastically defensive when pressed for sources, which most good scientists will have readily at hand, or provide from the beginning. Finally, COMPLETELY misunderstanding the point of something (this forum) in a way that suits his own needs.

It takes one to know one, and I know he ain't.

 

[Hespera]

I'll entertain it: Dude's a liar. Tell us you're a scientist, but then act in a way that no scientist (in my experience, or, apparently, the rest of yours) ever would. Spout the classic 'I've got evidence, but I WON'T share it with you' creationist line. Become fantastically defensive when pressed for sources, which most good scientists will have readily at hand, or provide from the beginning. Finally, COMPLETELY misunderstanding the point of something (this forum) in a way that suits his own needs.

It takes one to know one, and I know he ain't.

Entertain it, it entertains us. For a while.

Like you said, he aint one. The people who actually do know about something can spot someone who is trying to fake his way, and pretty fast.

Of course, your hovinds etc and razzle daz the ignorant and credulous.

But like i said, you go into a thesis defense, or a seminar or something with NO data and you get shredded.

Imagine me trying to hold forth about the fine points of Nascar racing.
I couldnt get a whole sentence out without revealing myself as a phony.

The only entertainment left in here is whether the dud(e) can figure out he has been made and will just disappear, or, if he is going to try to keep the act going.