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Creationists: can you explain post-Flood repopulation? (2)

samiam

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If I said something hurtful or offensive to you that warranted such treatment, I wouldn't mind an opportunity to apologize for it.

You did not say anything whatsoever hurtful or offensive to me, and I apologize for any miscommunication which implied otherwise. Since you seem to prefer Twitter-sized replies, this paragraph is under 280 characters.

No doubt you're familiar with the story of how God orchestrated Jacob's ringstraked, speckled, and spotted cattle into a formidable herd?

Not to mention this miracle:

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.
20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.


Bottleneck events, such as the worldwide flood in Noah's time, were a piece of cake with God; especially since He was the one Who called all the shots.

Thank you for bringing up that story. It is something I will bring up at the Bible study this week if appropriate, since we’re starting at Genesis 10 (the post-flood repopulation).
 
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Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
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There’s value in coming up with a “headcanon” which resolves the inconsistencies of a story, whether or not the story is fiction.
Ah, right. I get you now. Head cannon is always fun but it’s inappropriate for the Life Science sub fora.
 
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Astrid

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Ah, right. I get you now. Head cannon is always fun but it’s inappropriate for the Life Science sub fora.
People who get hyper touchy about having their absurd
"theories" corrected should avoid a science discussion.
 
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Astrid

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I suppose you could be one of those people who, like me, really enjoy writing even if only for its own sake—which I certainly think is fine!—but a lot of text could have been spared with the slightest change in the answer to my question. I had asked if you believe the flood of Noah was global in scale. You could have answered, "Personally? No. But this calculation was on behalf of those who do."

Instead, you dismissed the whataboutism (which was not even relevant to the discussion we were having) and asserted that a global flood requires some repopulating efforts. Well, sure, but how does that answer my question? It didn't, at least not clearly or obviously. Hence my confusion and second attempt. I really wish that you had instead answered, "I don't, no. But others do and so I came up with this solution for their benefit." I can understand and respect that kind of love for the brethren.

For those brethren, at least. For me, maybe not as much. I don't know what you meant by that comment about mocking or disrespecting someone for believing young-earth creationism but you were definitely talking to me, thus it felt aimed at me—even though I did not say anything that mocked or disrespected young-earth creationists (whom I have a history of respecting, loving, and defending). And then, taking no responsibility for your own answers, you also imply that I have been arguing in bad faith (and all because I had not understood your answer). [1] So, yeah, not as much love being shown for this brother, anyway. And why is that? I could not even guess at a reason. If I said something hurtful or offensive to you that warranted such treatment, I wouldn't mind an opportunity to apologize for it.

-----

[1] You said to Larnievc, "It assumes it was worldwide—something I myself generally do not believe—but posters had to belabor a point which comes off as not arguing in good faith."

I am all for showing respect for people.

Americans are not necessarily good at showing
normal courtesy of respect for women, Asians, or
"short people", which I am all three.
I results in a degree of pugnacity on my part-a normal
kind of response.
Just mentioned by way of saying respect for persons
is a value I understand.

Respect for ideas and beliefs is an entirely different
matter.
 
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AV1611VET

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Thank you for bringing up that story. It is something I will bring up at the Bible study this week if appropriate, since we’re starting at Genesis 10 (the post-flood repopulation).
Amen, brother, and praise the LORD!

In case anyone brings up what Ham did in his father's tent that day, here's my take on it:

Ham didn't do anything to Noah, he did it with his mother (Noah's wife).

Here's how it's worded ...

Genesis 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

This indeed looks like Ham violated his dad.

But if you look at Leviticus, it says ...

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.


Also, it says in Deuteronomy ...

Deuteronomy 27:20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.

So I don't think Ham even touched his father.
 
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BPPLEE

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Amen, brother, and praise the LORD!

In case anyone brings up what Ham did in his father's tent that day, here's my take on it:

Ham didn't do anything to Noah, he did it with his mother (Noah's wife).

Here's how it's worded ...

Genesis 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

This indeed looks like Ham violated his dad.

But if you look at Leviticus, it says ...

Leviticus 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.


Also, it says in Deuteronomy ...

Deuteronomy 27:20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.

So I don't think Ham even touched his father.
That's interesting. But why did he curse Canaan and not Ham?
Gen 9:24


And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25

And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26

And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Gen 9:27

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
 
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AV1611VET

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That's interesting. But why did he curse Canaan and not Ham?
Because God had already blessed Ham, and Noah couldn't curse him.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
 
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BPPLEE

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Because God had already blessed Ham, and Noah couldn't curse him.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Good answer!
 
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Astrid

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That's interesting. But why did he curse Canaan and not Ham?
Gen 9:24


And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25

And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26

And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Gen 9:27

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Considering that "flood" and "ark" are no more real
than Paul Bunyan and his Great Blue Ox, what profiteth
it one to analyze details of the story?

The is reason and purpose to the Paul Bunyan story,
but that meaning is not to be found in speculating
about the exact shade of blue, or how many pancakes
the estimable Mr Bunyan could eat.
 
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BPPLEE

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Considering that "flood" and "ark" are no more real
than Paul Bunyan and his Great Blue Ox, what profiteth
it one to analyze details of the story?

The is reason and purpose to the Paul Bunyan story,
but that meaning is not to be found in speculating
about the exact shade of blue, or how
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
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AV1611VET

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Considering that "flood" and "ark" are no more real than Paul Bunyan ...
What makes you say that?

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
 
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AV1611VET

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You really -really think that flood / no flood is
nothing more than a matter of opinion?
Jesus took it literally.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Paul took it literally.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Peter took it literally.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


We'll take it literally.

Everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.
 
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BPPLEE

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Jesus took it literally.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Paul took it literally.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Peter took it literally.

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;


We'll take it literally.

Everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.
.
 
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