Creationist Verses

[RightWingGirl]

--------Off topic for a moment.

1. Is Creation primarily corrupt and deceitful?

Yes.

2. Is Creation finished?
Yes.
3. Is Creation a revelation and testiment of the character, nature and will of God?
No--The Bible is the revelation and testament of the charater, nature and will of God. The universe can only show us the nature, character and will of it's maker to the extent that any "creation" shows about it's "creator" I suppose you could tell a bit about my character from one of my paintings, but you could not tell my will, what I thought, or anything else about me. A letter form me would tell you much more than a painting.


By the by, I know we disagree on this, but I think that this world "backs up" what is said in the Bible about a six day creation, and a world-wide flood.
A bit ago you mentioned that everything is interpreted. What we see in the world is interpreted--by you as evidence for Evolution, by me as evidence for YEC, the physical evidence its self cannot speak---but is interpreted, largly, by each man as he sees fit, or his theory sees fit. I look at a fossil of a fish that was perserved with another fish half out of it's mouth. Ah! say I, it is plain as day this fish was in the act of eating the other fish when wham, it was burried suddenly by a mud flow gererated by the flood! Ah! say you (or at least the avarage Evolutionist) it is as plain as day that this fish decided to eat a fish that was too large for it, got the other fish stuck in his throat, they both died, and for various reasons instead of floating went to the bottom and landed in an area that happened to be anoxic, so that it would'nt be eaten by other fish, or rot, until in the fullness of time it was covered, and then fossilized!
This is one reason I belive what the Bible says. Although the Bible can also be interpreted, the Bible can also speak for it's self.

A small question for you. What motive do you think I might have for my belief in a theory that is so ridiculed?

And what motive would an Atheistic Evolutionist, (Evolution was, I hear, accepted by the Church last) have for belief in a theory which prescribed a universe that did not require a god to make it?

----Back on topic

 

[Marshall Janzen]

Most of scripture I do think was "only" inspired, but I think that this particular passage (and the rest of the Ten Commandments) were actually spoken and written by God Himself.

In that case, could you respond to post #77? If Exodus 20:11 is part of what God spoke and wrote on the stone tablets, why does Deuteronomy 5 recount what is written on the stone tablets without that verse, and yet it says God "added no more" than what is listed there?

 

[chaoschristian]

A small question for you. What motive do you think I might have for my belief in a theory that is so ridiculed?

I won't begin to guess at your motives, because in some way I think doing so would come too close to questioning your faith. And I certainly have no intention of doing that.

Obviously you are convicted of your beliefs, you have demonstrated that quite clearly.

And what motive would an Atheistic Evolutionist, (Evolution was, I hear, accepted by the Church last) have for belief in a theory which prescribed a universe that did not require a god to make it?

Well, keep in mind that theistic evolutionists are not the darlings of atheistic evolutionists. We are in obvious violation of Occam's Razor, and for those who find that important we are as irrational as a YEC, only perhaps slightly more tolerable.

And also keep in mind that evolutionary theory itself is indifferent on the subject of a Creator. I think somewhere in your question you crossed the line from 'origins of the variations and diversity of life' to 'origins of life the universe and everything.'

Evolutionary theory prescribes nothing regarding the nature of the universe. It describes and predicts what happens to life forms assuming the existance of the passage of time (stereotypically, long pasages of time.)

Again, I can't guess at the motives of our generic atheistic evolutionists, because I don't know what his presuppositions are. He might presuppose that since evolutionary theory and the big bang theory make sense and don't need a Creator to be scientifically accurate then there is no God, OR he could presuppose that there is no God and evolutionary theory and the big bang are additional 'proof' of that. Or there could be other options that I'm just not thinking about at this moment.

 

[The Lady Kate]

A small question for you. What motive do you think I might have for my belief in a theory that is so ridiculed?

Martyrdom, perhaps? "Jesus said the world would ridicule Cristians, so the more they laugh at me, the more I must be right"?

 

[gluadys]

[This is one reason I belive what the Bible says. Although the Bible can also be interpreted, the Bible can also speak for it's self.

No text ever speaks for itself. It is always interpreted by the reader.

Evolution was, I hear, accepted by the Church last

Depends which church you are speaking of. The Roman Catholic church has only formally accepted evolution within the last few years, though it would be wrong to say it had rejected evolution earlier. By contrast, the Church of England acknowledged evolution as compatible with Christian belief in the 1880s, around the same time the Southern Presbyterians in the US were denouncing it. The major Christian universities in the US were teaching evolution in the 1880s. (At the time universities such as Princeton, Yale and Harvard were Christian, not state, institutions.)

There were scientists, such as Louis Agassiz, who held out against evolution longer than some churches did.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In that case, could you respond to post #77? If Exodus 20:11 is part of what God spoke and wrote on the stone tablets, why does Deuteronomy 5 recount what is written on the stone tablets without that verse, and yet it says God "added no more" than what is listed there?

I am interested in your question but I cannot understand exactly what you are asking. Can you be more clear? Thanks.

oldwiseguy

 

[Marshall Janzen]

Okay, I'll repeat my explanation.

Deuteronomy 5 lists the "words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them on two tablets of stone" (Deuteronomy 5:22). Yet, the Sabbath command does not contain a reference to creation in this account, even though God "added no more" than what is listed there.

My view is that the command on the tablet written by God is the substance of what is found in Exodus 20:8-10 and Deuteronomy 5:12-14, since they both mainly agree. The author(s) provided commentary on this command in both Exodus 20:11 and Deuteronomy 5:15, but these words could not have been on the stone tablets since they do not agree. Both are inspired commentary, of course, but it would be wrong to elevate Exodus 20:11 above the rest of Scripture by claiming it was written directly by God's finger.

What's your view?

 

[Gwenyfur]

Did the Lord create the heavens, the earth, and the sea, with all the life in them, in six solar days?

The Hebrew word yowm meaning "day" is used in the Genesis acccount The same word yowm is used in the gospels in reference to the time Y'shua was in the grave.

 

[artybloke]

I see, Gwenyfur, that when people ask you to actually define the theory of evolution as actually taught and accepted by scientists, you run away and join another thread...

 

[Gwenyfur]

I see, Gwenyfur, that when people ask you to actually define the theory of evolution as actually taught and accepted by scientists, you run away and join another thread...

I see I'm still replying over in the other thread as well ...

People are allowed to comment in more than one thread at a time...

grow up!

 

[artybloke]

You still haven't answered the question though.

 

[Gwenyfur]

You still haven't answered the question though.

I'm choosing not to give you a description of that which you obviously know so well.

The thread was a poll. It asked a point blank question, I gave a point blank answer. No debate needed.

Instead, why don't you prove to me that evolution is true instead. By that I mean, demonstrable, observable, repeated result, concrete evidence. Otherwise, take your insults, your childish attitudes and go away!

 

[artybloke]

I'm choosing not to give you a description of that which you obviously know so well.

Why? Are you scared that you're arguing against the wrong thing? How do I know that you know anything about what the theory of evolution really is (as opposed to the strawman versions that proliferate among the creationist camps) when you can't even provide a definition of it?

I'm not asking you to prove it wrong. I'm asking you to prove that you know as much as you say you know.

Instead, why don't you prove to me that evolution is true instead.

Proof is for mathematicians and alcohol. Fortunately, all the evidence I need is in one place: www.talk-origins.org

It also very handily provides neat and fairly understandable definitions of the theory of evolution, so you can go and crib up on your reply.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Why? Are you scared that you're arguing against the wrong thing? How do I know that you know anything about what the theory of evolution really is (as opposed to the strawman versions that proliferate among the creationist camps) when you can't even provide a definition of it?

I'm not asking you to prove it wrong. I'm asking you to prove that you know as much as you say you know.



Proof is for mathematicians and alcohol. Fortunately, all the evidence I need is in one place: www.talk-origins.org

It also very handily provides neat and fairly understandable definitions of the theory of evolution, so you can go and crib up on your reply.

All the evidence I need is in the word of G-d.

G-d is not a liar...therefore it took 6 days to create a complete world, with a real Adam and Eve. Period.

G-d said it....settled.

As for what you believe I know, I don't really care. You've been nothing but condescending and insultive. I refuse to lower myself to your debasement.
That's part of being an American...I don't have to tolerate being treated badly. I can and will ignore it.

 

[artybloke]

That's part of being an American...I don't have to tolerate being treated badly. I can and will ignore it.

Ah Amerika - can treat everybody else as its own personal playground but don't like it when someone treats it badly...

You still haven't shown me that you know what you're talking about.

And the Bible ain't Jesus - so it's not the Word of God. Who as far as I can tell, said nothing about evolution.

 

[Dannager]

All the evidence I need is in the word of G-d.

G-d is not a liar...therefore it took 6 days to create a complete world, with a real Adam and Eve. Period.

G-d said it....settled.

As for what you believe I know, I don't really care. You've been nothing but condescending and insultive. I refuse to lower myself to your debasement.
That's part of being an American...I don't have to tolerate being treated badly. I can and will ignore it.

Wait, you just went from asking for evidence of evolution to saying "G-d said it....settled"? What the heck? Are you actually interested in learning anything, or are you just going to stonewall with your religiously-motivated presupposition?

 

[Gwenyfur]

Ah Amerika - can treat everybody else as its own personal playground but don't like it when someone treats it badly...

You still haven't shown me that you know what you're talking about.

And the Bible ain't Jesus - so it's not the Word of God. Who as far as I can tell, said nothing about evolution.

heh...get some glasses, I haven't capitalized the w in any of the word of G-d phrases I've typed...unless is was directly referring to Y'shua

And as for being American....you aren't speaking german now are you?

 

[Gwenyfur]

Wait, you just went from asking for evidence of evolution to saying "G-d said it....settled"? What the heck? Are you actually interested in learning anything, or are you just going to stonewall with your religiously-motivated presupposition?

I get all the information I need in books, written by people who are educationed in both science and the Bible... a

and for that matter, why do you care? I've put up with that brit's whining demeaning manner since I started posting here. Just because I don't agree with his standard of G-d used Darwin's athiestic theory to create the world humanistic religion.

 

[chaoschristian]

All the evidence I need is in the word of G-d.

G-d is not a liar...therefore it took 6 days to create a complete world, with a real Adam and Eve. Period.

G-d said it....settled.

Gwenyfur, please if you will answer these questions for me. It's not a trap, just an attempt to seek understanding:

1. Is Creation primarily corrupt and deceitful?
2. Is Creation finished?
3. Is Creation a revelation and testiment of the character, nature and will of God?

 

[The Lady Kate]

I get all the information I need in books, written by people who are educationed in both science and the Bible...

Doubtful. There's very little science in anything you've written...

and for that matter, why do you care? I've put up with that brit's whining demeaning manner since I started posting here. Just because I don't agree with his standard of G-d used Darwin's athiestic theory to create the world humanistic religion.

...Case in point: Darwin's theory is not atheistic.