Creationist Strongarm

[Valkhorn]

One of the reasons why I really despise what Creationists do (beyond ignoring facts and evidence and lying for the lord) is their strongarm tactics to quiet all opposition. They claim that both sides of the argument should be talked about or complain about secular agendas when Evolution is discussed but have no problem with their own agendas of pushing their ideas.

One good example is the forum that I had linked to here a while ago at http://tinyurl.com/2eoj4j (it won't let me post the real URL without messing it up so that'll have to do). I was strong armed out by being negatively repped and the last comment about where I was was responded by the following:

"My understanding is that he was summarliy [sic] taken out and forced to shoot himself."

I cannot even defend myself nor defend the position of Evolution and when I am mentioned someone has the gall to say that.

The entire thread was full of Creationists who would negatively rep anyone who agreed with Evolution and they would readily thank and positively rep anyone who agreed with Creationism - in a way selecting only to keep those in the forum who agreed with their very narrow world view.

Not only I was strong armed out, but so was Pete Harcoff - who I think is one of the nicest members of this forum.

To put it bluntly this is just one of the reasons why I do not like Creationism and why it is not healthy for society. When you argue that you and you alone know the mind of god, you have no problem pushing around anyone who disagrees with you. There is no longer any open debate because you are an infidel, and even facts which directly contradict a religion or religious idea are quelled and squashed and superstition prevails.

There are also plenty of other places online and in the real world where Creationists remove any opposition and if you guys have any examples don't hesitate to post them - I know I have plenty more.

 

[SeaShepherd]

Ah, so the actions of a few reflect on us all? So because Jeffrey Dahmer was an atheist I should send the cops to check out your freezer?

Besides, you seem to be quite unbanned here, no one has tossed you out for your beliefs.

 

[Valkhorn]

Ah, so the actions of a few reflect on us all? So because Jeffrey Dahmer was an atheist I should send the cops to check out your freezer?

I'd hate to Godwin this thread but Hitler could be considered a Christian as well. However Creationists are rather consistent as their very belief system is based on ignoring facts rather than accepting them. Plus I have met more militant creationists than militant atheists and have been strong armed or 'banned on the intertubes' by creationists but never by atheists. In fact atheists or TE's are less apt to ban people who don't agree with them than creationists.

Besides, you seem to be quite unbanned here, no one has tossed you out for your beliefs.

Yes, and I have no problem with christians. Creationists on the other hand...

I also noticed you have put devil horns on Dawkins. I really don't understand the animosity for him. He is no more vocal than Pat Robertson (or Ted Haggard who influenced Bush) and in my opinion he's a much nicer, honest, and open-minded guy.

I don't know what the problem is with a lot of people but he strikes me as a pretty likable guy.

 

[Galle]

Ah, so the actions of a few reflect on us all? So because Jeffrey Dahmer was an atheist I should send the cops to check out your freezer?

It's not the actions of "a few", it's the overwhelmingly common response from creationists who are unrestrained.

I'll tell you what. Go to RaptureReady and say something that they don't agree with and see how quickly you get banned. Then go to JREF and say something the common group doesn't agree with and see how many people are eager to debate you. The difference is staggering.

I also noticed you have put devil horns on Dawkins. I really don't understand the animosity for him. He is no more vocal than Pat Robertson (or Ted Haggard who influenced Bush) and in my opinion he's a much nicer, honest, and open-minded guy.

It's precisely because Dawkins is so reasonable that they have to demonize him. If Dawkins were irrational or illogical, then they'd point out where. Instead, they can't, so they have to dismiss him somehow, usually by making up some dishonest claim about him being "just as bad as the fundamentalists" or some such.

I don't agree with everything he says, but I can definitely see where he's coming from. He might not always be right, but he's always honest.

 

[Valkhorn]

It's not the actions of "a few", it's the overwhelmingly common response from creationists who are unrestrained.

Thank you. That is my point. For the most part they are very unrestrained.

I'll tell you what. Go to RaptureReady and say something that they don't agree with and see how quickly you get banned. Then go to JREF and say something the common group doesn't agree with and see how many people are eager to debate you. The difference is staggering.

That is why I post here. I love debating and talking about things and at least here I can openly discuss things without fearing being censored or banned because I simply disagree. And, at least here, there are people who are far more knowledgeable than I who can debate as well and who don't ignore facts and evidence in favor of fantasy.

It's precisely because Dawkins is so reasonable that they have to demonize him. If Dawkins were irrational or illogical, then they'd point out where. Instead, they can't, so they have to dismiss him somehow, usually by making up some dishonest claim about him being "just as bad as the fundamentalists" or some such.

I agree with you. He is nice and he's honest. He isn't afraid to tell you how he feels and he has a lot of valid points.

I don't agree with everything he says, but I can definitely see where he's coming from. He might not always be right, but he's always honest.

I actually agree with him on everything but regardless of that he is very honest and he does not lie. He says what he means and he doesn't back down from it.

How often do we see that in the world today?

 

[Vainglorious]

I'd hate to Godwin this thread but Hitler could be considered a Christian as well. However Creationists are rather consistent as their very belief system is based on ignoring facts rather than accepting them. Plus I have met more militant creationists than militant atheists and have been strong armed or 'banned on the intertubes' by creationists but never by atheists. In fact atheists or TE's are less apt to ban people who don't agree with them than creationists.

Adding some anecdotal evidence, the only board I have ever been banned from was a Fundamentalist board. My crime? Making comments in the science section that didn't conform with "glorifying God".

 

[notto]

The creationists board on this very forum is they only one where Christians who accept evolution can't post. That board came about through a series of retreat where creationists had to keep retreating first from here to origins and then to a specific creationism forum. They had to keep removing others from the conversation because they felt persecuted when their ideas where questioned and scrutinized.

I would say that this follows the same type of behavior you have seen elsewhere. Creationist disinformation and logical disconnects cannot survive scrutiny.

 

[SeaShepherd]

Adding some anecdotal evidence, the only board I have ever been banned from was a Fundamentalist board. My crime? Making comments in the science section that didn't conform with "glorifying God".

From you? I can't imagine.

 

[Valkhorn]

From you? I can't imagine.

Instead of sarcastic remarks do you have anything to add to the topic at hand?

 

[Dannager]

Ah, so the actions of a few reflect on us all?

YES.

Which wouldn't be that big of a deal. Even us evolutionists have our fair share of bad apples (though, to be fair, not nearly as many as creationists seem to). The difference is that we police them. If we see an evolutionist say something wrong or make an outrageous, unsupportable claim, we take them to task for it, because it's the right thing to do. Creationists, almost to a man, don't do that. They're far more likely to pat their fellow creationist on the back with an "AMEN" smiley face than to do the intellectually honest thing.

So yes, the actions of a few reflect on all of you, because when creationists don't clean up their own messes, we get the reins.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Adding some anecdotal evidence, the only board I have ever been banned from was a Fundamentalist board. My crime? Making comments in the science section that didn't conform with "glorifying God".

What was the point of being on a fundamentalist board anyways? To harass believers? If it was in the rules, then you were rightfully banned

 

[Valkhorn]

Which wouldn't be that big of a deal. Even us evolutionists have our fair share of bad apples (though, to be fair, not nearly as many as creationists seem to). The difference is that we police them. If we see an evolutionist say something wrong or make an outrageous, unsupportable claim, we take them to task for it, because it's the right thing to do. Creationists, almost to a man, don't do that. They're far more likely to pat their fellow creationist on the back with an "AMEN" smiley face than to do the intellectually honest thing.

So yes, the actions of a few reflect on all of you, because when creationists don't clean up their own messes, we get the reins.

That's why just about anything goes in Creationism. One person may claim that there is a goldified sapphire core to the Earth, and Creationists don't even try to refute it - the only people who do are Evolutionists.

The same when a dancing greenland theory came up - only Evolutionists refuted it.

We even have a geocentrist on this board who actually believes the universe revolves around Earth. Do Creationists refute him? No.

 

[lemmings]

What was the point of being on a fundamentalist board anyways? To harass believers? If it was in the rules, then you were rightfully banned

You really believe that it glorifies your God by lying about his creation?

 

[Dannager]

That's why just about anything goes in Creationism. One person may claim that there is a goldified sapphire core to the Earth, and Creationists don't even try to refute it - the only people who do are Evolutionists.

The same when a dancing greenland theory came up - only Evolutionists refuted it.

We even have a geocentrist on this board who actually believes the universe revolves around Earth. Do Creationists refute him? No.

And the why of that? Because, in the end, they usually don't care. And why don't they care? Because none of this is about the evidence. None of this is about the theories. None of this is about discovering what's really true to them. This is about any way that can be mustered to justify a preconceived, closely-held religious belief that doesn't have any support unless it's made up.

 

[Valkhorn]

What was the point of being on a fundamentalist board anyways? To harass believers? If it was in the rules, then you were rightfully banned

If bringing up facts is 'harassing believers' then the problem lies in the believers.

Some beliefs are so silly that they shouldn't be respected. Should you respect those who hate other races? Should you respect those who deny the moon landing or deny the holocaust? Should you respect those who think the government brought down the WTC?

No.

 

[Valkhorn]

And the why of that? Because, in the end, they usually don't care. And why don't they care? Because none of this is about the evidence. None of this is about the theories. None of this is about discovering what's really true to them. This is about any way that can be mustered to justify a preconceived, closely-held religious belief that doesn't have any support unless it's made up.

Exactly. Beliefs that are not founded in reality and lack any effort are not worthy of respect, in my opinion.

 

[Vainglorious]

What was the point of being on a fundamentalist board anyways? To harass believers? If it was in the rules, then you were rightfully banned

I was there because the science section of their board was a seething mass of ignorace. By ignorance I don't mean there were a lot of Young Earthers etc, I mean very few posters seem to know much science.

I did not want to debate anyone's religion or the existance of God etc, this was just basic science topics. Everything was going fine until some of my posts pointed out major errors in some of the prominant member's arguments. Next thing I was told I couldn't post in the science section because I was an atheist (Identified myself as such). I asked for an explanation of why an atheist couldn't post in the science section when the Rules explicitely made reference to things atheists could or could not argue in the science section. No explantion.

Not only was this my first banning but my first lifetime ban. Not only was I banned but every single post I ever made on the board was deleted. Talk about Orwell's memory hole.

Fundy logic - if you can't use reason then go Jihad on 'em.

ADD: Do you ever notice how Fundamentalists (of any type) don't like their little worldview being challenged. Notice there is a Young Earth Only section of this board but there is no Theistic Evolutionist Only section. Which group is trying to hide from something?

 

[Valkhorn]

ADD: Do you ever notice how Fundamentalists (of any type) don't like their little worldview being challenged. Notice there is a Young Earth Only section of this board but there is no Theistic Evolutionist Only section. Which group is trying to hide from something?

This is why they mustn't be allowed equal time in science class apart from it being factually incorrect. Why is it ok to question Evolution, but if you question ID or Creationism you are looked on as a monster.

 

[Freodin]

Notice there is a Young Earth Only section of this board but there is no Theistic Evolutionist Only section. Which group is trying to hide from something?

Well, if you are talking about this board here - ChristianForums - there is such a section.
http://www.christianforums.com/f426-theistic-evolution.html

Though I have never noticed anyone there complaining about other posters posting there.

(If you were talking about another of the mentioned boards here, I apologize for trying to "correct" you. )

 

[Dannager]

ADD: Do you ever notice how Fundamentalists (of any type) don't like their little worldview being challenged. Notice there is a Young Earth Only section of this board but there is no Theistic Evolutionist Only section. Which group is trying to hide from something?

Yep. To clarify, there is a Creationism sub-forum and a Theistic Evolution sub-forum. The Creationism sub-forum was recently voted, by creationists (unanimously!), to become creationist-only. The TE sub-forum, on the other hand, was unanimously voted to be unrestricted.