BabbleOn8806 said:
Most people in this forum are very familiar with the major creationist organizations and their material. Just FYI.
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Creationist flood challenge
- Thread starter Pete Harcoff
- Start date
Most people in this forum are very familiar with the major creationist organizations and their material. Just FYI.
Those who understand geology know that there is no evidence of rapidly growing mountains post flood and that earthquakes and heat released by such a process would be at least have been noticed by someone. But there is another big problem. Those same creationists who say there were no mountains before the flood use biomes at different elevations and differential escapability into mountains to supposedly sort fossils while thousand of feet of sediments are being deposited. It doesn't work of course but even so you can't use mountains that don't exist for this purpose. Doesn't it bother you at all that the YEC "explanation" for one phenomonon directly contradicts the "explanation" for another.
If you think we haven't seen all the supposed flood evidences and totally inadequate pseudo explanations of flood falsifications just post some of them and see how quickly and easily they can be shown to be nonsense.
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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The once again re-iterate the questions in the opening post (since most people are ignoring them):
1) Which geological strata are pre-flood, which strata were laid down during the flood, and which strata are post-flood?
2) Based on the geological evidence, what is the time frame for the flood; when did it occur and how long was it? (note the bolded section)
Still waiting for answers...
1) Which geological strata are pre-flood, which strata were laid down during the flood, and which strata are post-flood?
2) Based on the geological evidence, what is the time frame for the flood; when did it occur and how long was it? (note the bolded section)
Still waiting for answers...
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Pete Harcoff said:
Don't hold your breath. I think you will be waiting until the proverbial hot place freezes over completely. Maybe some YEC would like to try to prove me wrong but the record is not very good so far.
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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Alessandro said:You still dont see it, but I respect that.
I don't see an answer to Pete's questions because one has not been provided. How could anyone see something that's not there.
YECs can't say which strata were deposited by the worldwide flood because none were. Now you should either answer the question and identify the layers the show the specific start and stop of this supposed event that allegedly changed all the world's geology or admit you can't. If you can't can you explain why you can't. I have an easy explanation. There was no worldwide flood.
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
It's more than what he thinks, it's what is and you are deliberately ignoring that evidence and the questions Pete put forth.
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Not ignoring, but when one is convinced of something it is beyond the stage of debate, and I know its the same for you all as well. That I respect.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
You have ignored many facts such as there not being enough water on earth for the flood in the first place. You ignore features like angular unconformities, the hawaiian islands, plate tectonism, limestones, salt deposits and a wide variety of features.
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Alessandro said:
You can make this allegation all you want, but at this point it sounds like a poor excuse for not being able to provide an answer.
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Alessandro said:
Nothing changes the FACT that neither you nor any other YEC can meet Pete's challenge. You have not even tried. You have just posted a lot of nonsense and obviously false claims from some creationist web sites and a bunch of Bible verses.
Why not just try his first question, which strata are preflood, which are flood deposits and which are post flood?
If the worldwide had really occured the flood horizons should be obvious and this should be trivially easy to answer. So why can't you answer it? Why have you not even tried? Why can't any other YEC answer this challenge?
The Frumious Bandersnatch
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Pete Harcoff said:
Pete,
It would seem that you are less interested in considering Noah then you are refuting him. Does it make a difference what might have been before, or might have been after? Would it mean anything to you? The evidence that you constrain the answer to is unnamed. And if we have a mountain of evidence, do we arrive at the correct answer? As an example, take notice of the Grand Canyon. Was it really the Colorado River slowly carving away over untold millions of years...or was it something else...something more catastrophic? Many arrive at answers to these questions based largely on belief, or lack of the same, and not so much the evidence.
Luke
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Luke said:
My purpose is to see if the geology of the Earth is tenable with respect to the creationist model for the history of the Earth. If it is, then creationists should be able to answer. If it is not, then it is little surprise they cannot answer.
The problem is some creationists insist the world is representative of the events described in Genesis. Therefore, I would like them to show that. Put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. That they avoid these subjects demonstrates to me that their claims are false.
Personally, I don't really have a vested interest in it either way. If the flood of Noah could be confirmed by geological evidence, I think that would be pretty darned cool, actually. And if it cannot, then so be it.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
Then put up, or shut up. And don't ignore the evidence you don't like just to preserve your preconceived conclusion, also.
Either answer the questions of the topic, or there's no sense posting anything at all.
Either answer the questions of the topic, or there's no sense posting anything at all.
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Mechanical Bliss
Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.
You are ignoring evidence as I pointed out in the "Geological Sciences vs. YECism/Flood Geology" thread and you ignored my post that pointed these things out. I cited SPECIFIC evidences that you and other creationists ignore. And denying that you ignore them just proves my point. If you weren't ignoring evidence, you'd be able to answer the questions and address the features I pointed out. Since you can't, it just confirms the fact that you are wrong.
So either put up, or shut up. Answer the questions of the topic, or there's no point posting anything at all. You are just cluttering up this thread with post after post of one liners that boil down to "I'm right because I say so, but I can't back anything up or address anyone's points".
So either put up, or shut up. Answer the questions of the topic, or there's no point posting anything at all. You are just cluttering up this thread with post after post of one liners that boil down to "I'm right because I say so, but I can't back anything up or address anyone's points".
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