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RightWingGirl said:Hi!
I haven't known any of the resident Creationists very well, and I see I have missed out. I post on the Creation/Evolution thread in the Non-Christians section.
I am very interested in Mark's idea--Count me in!
1. He who loses his temper first loses.
2. Make sure that your opponent has no cause to be angry at you personally, only your message. ie. As fun as it is to be sarcastic, it does not help the debate atmosphere, or your witness.
3. Keep your arguments short, and to the point.
4. Always bring your opponents argument to the last point in logic. (My theory is correctsee, it fits all of the laws of physics. Then are all theories that fir the laws of physics correct?
Pats said:I've read through this thread with much interest. I am desperate for more quality, scientific information that supports the YEC's view.
I know I do not come around here much, but I didn't find it to be much of a home my first try. I am always looking for scientific information on this subject. I have private debates with a pagan friend who is absolutely convinced that science only supports evolution, and proves it 90% of the way to be true. He is also of the opinion that the Bible is the only source of evidence for creation.
I have made some headway with him, but not much. A place such as this to come and share ideas would be most valuable to me. I know very little myself when it comes to science, but I am a good writer and proof reader. If you needed help with editing, please do not hesitate to ask.
Pats
Creation Science Resources
Creation Science is based on the belief that the Bible is a history book. It is the written record of God's works from the creation of the world and all that is in it, to the creation of the new heavens and new earth in the final pages of the Revelation. Declaring the wonderfull works of God is the message of the Gospel in order to bring people to faith in the Son of God. What follows is an annotated list of resources I have found helpfull in the last couple of years since I took an active interest in the Creation Evolution controversy.
Naturalistic Methodology:
First of all the biggest problem is not with scientific itself or even the theory of evolution, it's the view that science must be restricted to underected natural processes. In order to understand the real problem with Darwinism you need a philosopher to sort out the issues. Paul Nelson is a Philosophy Professor at the University of Chicogo. He is one of the intellectual giants of what has come to be known as Intelligent Design. Evolutionists would like to distract you from the fact by insisting this is all about science. That's simply not true, this is about a philosophy of history. They don't want you to look at the philosophy that is really behind the curtain pulling the levers.
Jettison the Argument of the Rule, Paul Nelson
Paul Nelson is a theistic scholar that believes that natural science leaves room for theistic reasoning. Intelligent Design is an attempt to identify design empirically. Scientists are starting to see this and a small group is working tirelessly to turn the tide. William Dembski describes the problem in this way:
"Now the Darwinain establishment so defines sceince that naturalistic evolution alone can constitute a legitimate scientific answer to the question How did life originate and develop? Nonetheless, when Stephen Jay Gould, Michael Ruse, Richard Dawkins, George Gaylord Simpson and other disciples assiret that naturalistic evolution is true, they purpose that naturalistic evolution is the conclusion of a scientific argument based on empirical evidence. But it is nother of the sort. The empirical evidence is in fact weak, and the conclusion follows necessarily as a strict logical deduction once science is as a matter of defintion restricted to undirected natural processes. Naturalistic evolution is therefore built directly into a naturalistic construal of sceince."
(William Dembski, Intelligent Design)
What on earth is going on here? This comes from a very simple question, how do we know with certainty what has happened in the distant past? From a Biblical perspective God acting creation and throughout history is not even a serious question:
"Great and marvelous are your works,
Lord God Almighty!
Just and true are all your ways,
King of the Ages!
Who will not worship you Oh Lord, and give glory to your name?
For you alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before you,
For your righteous deeds have been revealed."
(Revelation 15:3,4)
The Bible is a book that records the wonderfull works of God down through human history. The whole issue is history and how we know anything about the past. Creationists read the Bible as a history book but the world wants you to think it's just mythology and legend. One of the main issues is human ancestory. Genesis is an historical narrative that makes undeniable statements about our lineage:
"All scholars agree that the most significant and distinguishing phrase in Genesis is "these are the generations of." Commentators of all theological schools divide the book around that phrase, which is found eleven times in Genesis (2:4; 5:1; 6:9; 10:1; 11:10, 27; 25:12, 19; 36:1, 9;37:2)
Remus said:I am interested when I have the time, which will come and go. One suggestion that I have is to do some collaborative efforts. Some people may have some ideas; but dont know how to put them into words, dont have time to do so, or havent fleshed everything out. If someone that had an idea could get together with someone that could verify the data or investigate further and put it in essay form, then that would remove a barrier that some may have. I know in the past, Ive had some ideas floating around in my head that I would like to flesh out, but I havent had time to spend on them.
Gwenyfur said:That's me! I can read and learn and read and learn, but when it comes to putting it into text/debate I get lost very easily...
I am workign locally with pastors and school teachers and teaching them about YEC it's going rather well...I guess I'm more of an audial person than visual heh...
but I can help with research and such if needed...
anyhow...there's my volunteer and why I haven't jumped as yet...
Mark...you've seen me get flustered LOL
Remus thanks for making this remark and opening the door for my 2 cents
Pats said:<---very annoyed! Can't seem to make my quotes work. :s
I enjoyed this start to your article Mark. And I feel this really speaks to Christians. Thank you. I am looking forward to more.
As far as those with no faith in the Bible.... well, there's a whole Biblical authenticity arguement that must be won before arguements like this can be heard. But that's another ball of wax
mark kennedy said:That's one of the things about creationism, it's hard to communicate how history is important in Scripture. I kind of ran into a hard spot there when I started thinking about Joseph, Daniel, Esther and Nehemiah. They all stood in pivitol points in the course of human history. Of course lets not leave out Jesus and the Apostles, especially Paul.
I'm trying to get up the gumption to track down the links that helped me in my creation debates. It will take a little time but I think you will like the links when I am up to it.
Grace and peace,
Mark
mark kennedy said:The theme is Creationism, what does it mean, where does it come from and where is it going? I'm tired of talking to evolutionists about this, I want to hear from creationists.
Amen, Brother!vossler said:First of all I'd like to say this is a wonderful idea!
Creationist, like myself, who have a limited knowledge of the scientific terminology and logic behind many evolutionary ideas need a place they can go to get honest biblically based answers without getting into an argument.
I am a student of ICR and AIG materials, and agree with all you have just stated.john crawford said:Excuse me for commenting here, but, a six-day creation is fundamental to the YEC position. Next comes Noah's Ark and the worldwide flood. Third is the chronological order of generational descent from the time of Adam and Eve leaving very little leeway for an earth older than 10,000 years. At least this is the scenario and timetable outlined in "The Genesis Flood" by Morris and Whitcomb, and commonly held by leading creationists at ICR and AIG.
How many posters here stand alone on that platform?
You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.mark kennedy said:Of course OEC will be welcome. The issue is not whether or not the earth is 3 billion years old but whether or not life was creation 6-10 thousand years ago.
Grace and peace,
Mark
FallingWaters said:You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.
You mean they're not going to argue with YECs? Because I thought having a place of agreement instaed of having to argue was the main purpose.
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