Creationist Arguments Against ERV's

[joshua 1 9]

Because Cain didn't offer it by Faith.

Heb 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

We are told that Able sacrificed an Animal.
Some say: “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22)

And Abel,he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof.
And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Gen4:4

 

[joshua 1 9]

The problem with text books is that they date very quickly:

I mostly read the outdated text books because you can get them for next to nothing. Whats difference can it make if I am reading the 18th edition instead of the 20th edition? They only text books I ever paid for had to do with the evolution of plants and animals in the middle east. Even then I managed to find one with a pretty good price compared to what I would have had to pay otherwise.

 

[joshua 1 9]

When do you suppose that today's Science will discover what is written in Genesis?

They will discover it during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[Aggie]

Therefore, a consensus sequence where the mutations are removed should be the least virus-like sequence out of all of them.

I wish you wouldn't say this, because it definitely isn't true. Whether or not the original sequence had to do with being a virus is irrelevant. The point is that the original sequence would have to be closer to being a virus than what currently exists, because the original sequence is what evolved into a virus. On the other hand, what we have now would be something that diverged from the ancestor of viruses a few thousands or millions of years ago (depending on how old they think the earth is). The more it's diverged from the ancestor of viruses, the less-virus like it would have become.

I'm not sure why you aren't responding to this point. I don't think I'm being unclear, but you seem to just be re-stating your original point without addressing mine.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I am making my argument against ERVs and the other Lies which are being force taught to our babies in elementary School.

College students have a more sensitive BS meter so they have to feed them lies more early in life. Kindergarten is a German concept designed to indoctrinate children at a younger age.

 

[bhsmte]

I mostly read the outdated text books because you can get them for next to nothing. Whats difference can it make if I am reading the 18th edition instead of the 20th edition? They only text books I ever paid for had to do with the evolution of plants and animals in the middle east. Even then I managed to find one with a pretty good price compared to what I would have had to pay otherwise.

Do you still claim, there is only one biology text book?

 

[bhsmte]

College students have a more sensitive BS meter so they have to feed them lies more early in life. Kindergarten is a German concept designed to indoctrinate children at a younger age.

Where you come up with this stuff, is beyond me.

 

[Loudmouth]

I wish you wouldn't say this, because it definitely isn't true. Whether or not the original sequence had to do with being a virus is irrelevant. The point is that the original sequence would have to be closer to being a virus than what currently exists, because the original sequence is what evolved into a virus.

If it had to evolve into a virus, then the current ERV's would be closest to being a virus. The creationists claim that current ERV's are producing retroviruses now.

Also, you would need to produce 200,000 insertions in just 4,000 years, according to young earth creationists.

 

[Loudmouth]

I tell you God's Truth and you IGNORE it just like most scientists do.

I am asking you to present evidence. Please present evidence, not a twisted interpretation of the Bible.

I am making my argument against ERVs and the other Lies which are being force taught to our babies in elementary School. Have you no shame? Since you find it impossible to refute God, you DEMAND changeable scientific evidence even when today's Science is totally ignorant of what happened before the Big Bang. God knows and told us in Genesis. Amen?

You are not God. Stop pretending that you are.

 

[Aggie]

If it had to evolve into a virus, then the current ERV's would be closest to being a virus. The creationists claim that current ERV's are producing retroviruses now.

Is that what [url=https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/doc/articles/pdf-versions/Exogenization_Endogenization.pdf]this paper[/URL] argues? It seems to be using the specific potential rebuttal that I mentioned. Here's a quote:

In his book Genetic entropy and the mystery of the genome, Dr. John Sanford pointed out the degeneration of genomes and predicted the extinction of the human race (Sanford 2008). So the apparent degeneration of ERV elements in vertebrate genomes is real. All known HERVs show varying degrees of deletions and substitutions. Oftentimes, the original viral genes are mutated beyond recognition (Cordonnier, Casella, and Heidmann 1995).

In the context of this paper's argument that viruses are descended from ERVs, this seems to be saying that the ERVs we have today are mutated beyond recognition from the genetic elements that originally gave rise to viruses. So that's the creationist argument that needs to be addressed.

 

[Loudmouth]

Is that what [URL='https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/doc/articles/pdf-versions/Exogenization_Endogenization.pdf']this paper argues? It seems to be using the specific potential rebuttal that I mentioned. Here's a quote:[/URL]

[URL='https://cdn-assets.answersingenesis.org/doc/articles/pdf-versions/Exogenization_Endogenization.pdf']
Here is a better one:

"The ability of retroviruses to transpose within the host cell or to infect another host may have been designed for protein-coding, for gene regulation, and for DNA repair by homologous and non-homologous recombination. After the Fall, retroviral elements have been degraded by mutations. Retroviral insertion into the host genome also became deregulated, causing insertional mutagenesis. Deregulation of exogenous retroviruses resulted in pathogenesis." [emphasis mine]





[/URL]

 

[Larniavc]

Is that what this paper argues? It seems to be using the specific potential rebuttal that I mentioned. Here's a quote:


In the context of this paper's argument that viruses are descended from ERVs, this seems to be saying that the ERVs we have today are mutated beyond recognition from the genetic elements that originally gave rise to viruses. So that's the creationist argument that needs to be addressed.

The vast majority of biologist reject Sanford's position.

 

[Aman777]

We are told that Able sacrificed an Animal.
Some say: “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22)

And Abel,he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof.
And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Gen4:4

Amen and that's a picture of Jesus from Genesis. The blood of animals was NOT enough to save mankind from our sins, therefore Jesus had to die. A man without sin died to pay for His children's sins. I call us His children because He formed us from the dust of the ground with His Own Hands. Genesis 2:7 God Bless you

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

[Aggie]

Here is a better one:

"The ability of retroviruses to transpose within the host cell or to infect another host may have been designed for protein-coding, for gene regulation, and for DNA repair by homologous and non-homologous recombination. After the Fall, retroviral elements have been degraded by mutations. Retroviral insertion into the host genome also became deregulated, causing insertional mutagenesis. Deregulation of exogenous retroviruses resulted in pathogenesis." [emphasis mine]

I'm don't think I understand what argument you're making with this quote. Obviously most young-Earth creationists think mutations didn't start happening until after the Fall, but that doesn't negate my point. The authors of this paper clearly think ERVs originally were more virus-like, and that accumulated mutations have made them less that way over time. That's what the creationist position actually is.

 

[Aman777]

They will discover it during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Amen. God Bless you

 

[Aman777]

I wish you wouldn't say this, because it definitely isn't true. Whether or not the original sequence had to do with being a virus is irrelevant. The point is that the original sequence would have to be closer to being a virus than what currently exists, because the original sequence is what evolved into a virus. On the other hand, what we have now would be something that diverged from the ancestor of viruses a few thousands or millions of years ago (depending on how old they think the earth is). The more it's diverged from the ancestor of viruses, the less-virus like it would have become.

I'm not sure why you aren't responding to this point. I don't think I'm being unclear, but you seem to just be re-stating your original point without addressing mine.

It's all he's got. I've told him his sample was too broad and I've also heard exactly what you are saying. I'm happy you are refuting his view. I don't think Loud will change his mind because that would mean that he is wrong and like The Donald, he just keeps spamming the same old thing. Amen?

 

[Aman777]

College students have a more sensitive BS meter so they have to feed them lies more early in life. Kindergarten is a German concept designed to indoctrinate children at a younger age.

Amen. Scripture confirms your view:

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Once the child is brainwashed enough, he joins the Eliteist know it alls who freely choose to burn rather than bow their knees to Christ. That is WHY I call Godless Evolution the biggest Satanic Lie ever told.

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm don't think I understand what argument you're making with this quote. Obviously most young-Earth creationists think mutations didn't start happening until after the Fall, but that doesn't negate my point. The authors of this paper clearly think ERVs originally were more virus-like,

"After the Fall, retroviral elements have been degraded by mutations. Retroviral insertion into the host genome also became deregulated, causing insertional mutagenesis. Deregulation of exogenous retroviruses resulted in pathogenesis."

Retroviruses only became pathogenic after the fall, not before.

 

[Loudmouth]

Amen and that's a picture of Jesus from Genesis. The blood of animals was NOT enough to save mankind from our sins, therefore Jesus had to die. A man without sin died to pay for His children's sins. I call us His children because He formed us from the dust of the ground with His Own Hands. Genesis 2:7 God Bless you

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What does this have to do with ERV's?

 

[Loudmouth]

Amen. Scripture confirms your view:

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Once the child is brainwashed enough, he joins the Eliteist know it alls who freely choose to burn rather than bow their knees to Christ. That is WHY I call Godless Evolution the biggest Satanic Lie ever told.

You call it that. Not God. Stop pretending you are God.