Creationist Arguments Against ERV's

[joshua 1 9]

You don't seem to be reading what I've written. I'm talking about the everyday mutations that happen all the time in your body. When your cells divide (and millions of yours do every day) they have to make a copy of the DNA so both the resulting cells have a copy. When they do the copying, the DNA can be copied imperfectly meaning that the daughter cells have different DNA - that is a mutation. That's all I'm talking about. You were going on about mutations being Satanic and I showed you that they happen naturally in your body every day.

I still don't know what this one biology book is you refer to.

Evolution involved a species, not individual mutations that take place in individuals. The DNA has ways to correct those errors and mistakes so they do not spread from the individual to the species.

 

[Loudmouth]

Evolution involved a species, not individual mutations that take place in individuals.

Species include individuals and the mutations found in individuals within the population.

The DNA has ways to correct those errors and mistakes so they do not spread from the individual to the species.

No, it doesn't. If you are born with a mutation, you will pass on that mutation. Nothing in your germ line cells can go back to your parents and figure out which mutations you have and how to fix them.

Also, each of us is born with 35 to 50 mutations.

"Here we present, to our knowledge, the first direct comparative analysis of male and female germline mutation rates from the complete genome sequences of two parent-offspring trios. Through extensive validation, we identified 49 and 35 germline de novo mutations (DNMs) in two trio offspring, as well as 1,586 non-germline DNMs arising either somatically or in the cell lines from which the DNA was derived."
http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v43/n7/full/ng.862.html

 

[joshua 1 9]

If you are born with a mutation

Your changing the subject but ok. The only mutations you can be born with come from the father. Because they believe that a women has all of her eggs from the beginning. So there is a lot less of a chance for her to pass mutations onto her children.

Here is the article on DNA Repair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_repair

 

[Loudmouth]

Your changing the subject but ok. The only mutations you can be born with come from the father.

Not the only ones, but probably the majority of mutations.

Because they believe that a women has all of her eggs from the beginning. So there is a lot less of a chance for her to pass mutations onto her children.

That's not quite right. There isn't a lot of time for mutations to accumulate in the germ line cells of women compared to men.

Here is the article on DNA Repair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_repair

DNA repair doesn't catch all the mutations. If that mutation is not repaired in the sperm or egg it occurs in, then it will be a part of the genome a child that comes from that egg or sperm. Everyone is born with 35 to 50 mutations. There is no way that a person can get rid of the mutations they were born with, and they have a 50% chance of passing them on to any offspring they have.

 

[joshua 1 9]

DNA repair doesn't catch all the mutations. If that mutation is not repaired in the sperm or egg it occurs in, then it will be a part of the genome a child that comes from that egg or sperm. Everyone is born with 35 to 50 mutations. There is no way that a person can get rid of the mutations they were born with, and they have a 50% chance of passing them on to any offspring they have.

So your saying that evolution takes place as a result of mutations during the reproduction process? IE mutations in either the sperm or the eggs?

 

[Loudmouth]

So your saying that evolution takes place as a result of mutations during the reproduction process? IE mutations in either the sperm or the eggs?

The other major part is selection. Mutations produce variation. Those variations that increase fitness will be passed on at a higher rate and become more common in the population, which is selection. Evolution is often described as a two step process, mutation then selection.

 

[Aman777]

The other major part is selection. Mutations produce variation. Those variations that increase fitness will be passed on at a higher rate and become more common in the population, which is selection. Evolution is often described as a two step process, mutation then selection.

IOW, Evolution is nothing more than changes within His kinds and Their kinds exactly as God told us in Gen 1:25. This also means that all these mutations could NOT have produced today's Humans since mutations don't produce superior intelligence. You are either born with Adam's superior intelligence or you are NOT Human. Magical Evolution is a satanic Lie. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

This also means that all these mutations could NOT have produced today's Humans since mutations don't produce superior intelligence.

You never present any evidence to back this claim.

 

[Aman777]

You never present any evidence to back this claim.

You don't accept God's evidence but prefer instead man's changeable views. The problem is that Science has NO idea HOW or WHEN we magically changed from prehistoric to Human intelligence. When I present empirical historic evidence which you cannot explain, you simply claim it doesn't mean anything and then violate the 9th Commandment by saying i haven't presented any. Amen?

 

[Doveaman]

Fine. If it was a supernatural event, tell us what it was. Where did the 200,000 ERV insertions come from that are shared between humans and chimpanzees? Who put them there? When? Why?

The first modern man was created from the cells of an ape just as Eve was created from the cells of Adam.

Re-creation with modification.

We have a perfectly good natural explanation for why the ERVs are there. That explanation lets us predict all sorts of things, things that we later observe. You are offering to replace this good, working explanation with a supernatural "explanation" that explains nothing at all.

No explanation is good if it denies God's inspired record of creation.

 

[Doveaman]

In other words, no amount of evidence will ever change your mind.

Why should it? We are talking about a super-natural event. The evidence is unreliable.

The virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus is inconsistent with observed natural processes. Evidence based on observed natural processes does no apply.

I find it very disingenuous for creationists to ask for such things as observations of abiogenesis and speciation in the lab when they could care less for such observations. As you have so perfectly shown, even when we have the observations you reject them. So why do you ever ask for any observations when you will just turn around and ignore them?

I already explained your ERV observations: Re-creation with modification.

 

[Loudmouth]

You don't accept God's evidence but prefer instead man's changeable views. The problem is that Science has NO idea HOW or WHEN we magically changed from prehistoric to Human intelligence. When I present empirical historic evidence which you cannot explain, you simply claim it doesn't mean anything and then violate the 9th Commandment by saying i haven't presented any. Amen?

Where is your evidence that DNA has no impact on our physical characteristics?

 

[Loudmouth]

Why should it? We are talking about a super-natural event. The evidence is unreliable.

You have never demonstrated that it was a super-natural event.

The virgin birth and the resurrection of Jesus is inconsistent with observed natural processes.

So is Santa Claus delivering presents to every child in a single night.

Do you really think that the simple proclamation that something is supernatural makes all of the evidence go away? If you were on a jury, would you be convinced to find the defendant not guilty if the defense attorney said the crime was a supernatural event, so the evidence should just be ignored?

I already explained your ERV observations: Re-creation with modification.

That's a dogmatic belief, not an explanation.

 

[Aman777]

Where is your evidence that DNA has no impact on our physical characteristics?

Loaded question since it does. It's the way God made us and told us the same thing in Genesis 2. He took Adam's rib and made Eve showing us that everything necessary for making another person is in our DNA, along with a little bit of bone. All you have learned is HOW God did it through DNA. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

Loaded question since it does. It's the way God made us and told us the same thing in Genesis 2. He took Adam's rib and made Eve showing us that everything necessary for making another person is in our DNA, along with a little bit of bone. All you have learned is HOW God did it through DNA. Amen?

Where is your evidence that our intelligence has nothing to do with our DNA?

 

[Aman777]

Where is your evidence that our intelligence has nothing to do with our DNA?

I have God's Word for it since Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans was made with a superior intelligence above that of ANY other living creature because he was made with an intelligence like God's. Gen 3:22

NO creature who descended from the WATER has this intelligence level because evolution does Not and has Never produced Human (Adam) intelligence in ANY other living creature. God tells us HOW and WHEN He brought Adam's superior intelligence to Planet Earth and History AGREES.

 

[Loudmouth]

I have God's Word for it . . .

That would be the claim, not the evidence.

Where is the scientific evidence that our DNA has nothing to do with our intelligence?

 

[bhsmte]

That would be the claim, not the evidence.

Where is the scientific evidence that our DNA has nothing to do with our intelligence?

Aman is big on claims, not so much with the evidence to support the same.

 

[Aman777]

That would be the claim, not the evidence.

Where is the scientific evidence that our DNA has nothing to do with our intelligence?

I didn't say that. That is your question since DNA has everything to do with our intelligence since Adam's superior intelligence is INHERITED that way. NO magical evolution required. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

I didn't say that. That is your question since DNA has everything to do with our intelligence since Adam's superior intelligence is INHERITED that way. NO magical evolution required. Amen?

If we inherited DNA from Adam, then we should also have Adam's pre-integration sites, but we don't. Therefore, the claim is falsified.