Creationism... Why bother with it?

[TigerForce]

im trying to find a definition for "directed energy" but all i get is military weaponry of fo google

 

[toff]

No doubt chemical reactions happen. if your chemistry example is the one im thinking of namely the water carborator then i have your answer. Note that the right circumstances have to be right for this to happen. unless the atmosphere go up in flames since it is made of nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen etc... the creation of the right circumstance and the flame is not evident of evolution. Since it takes an intelligent entity to set up the right circumstances. However, the energy in this experiment is directed. YOU set it up to do a task you knew would happen therefore it did work. The water forms as a result of this directed energy from an outside source, however in time it will again evaporate into gas. I cannot give the chemical reactions since i am not a chemist.
for the chaos to order thing see this random site i got from google panspermia.org/seconlaw.htm

You keep saying one thing over and over..."it takes an intelligent entity to..." but not once have you demonstrated this. It appears your argument, thus far, is solely an argument from incredulity (ie., "I can't believe this could happen...therefore it didn't"). Sadly, your knowledge of chemistry and physics seems lacking. You have pointed out no valid violations of the second law of thermodynamics.

 

[notto]

No doubt chemical reactions happen. if your chemistry example is the one im thinking of namely the water carborator then i have your answer. Note that the right circumstances have to be right for this to happen. unless the atmosphere go up in flames since it is made of nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen etc... the creation of the right circumstance and the flame is not evident of evolution. Since it takes an intelligent entity to set up the right circumstances. However, the energy in this experiment is directed. YOU set it up to do a task you knew would happen therefore it did work. The water forms as a result of this directed energy from an outside source, however in time it will again evaporate into gas. I cannot give the chemical reactions since i am not a chemist.
for the chaos to order thing see this random site i got from google panspermia.org/seconlaw.htm

You seem to be suggesting that chemical reactions don't just happen and that each one that uses energy to construct a molecule must be setup by an intelligent entity. This of course, is not the case. To suggest that the reaction I used as an example, along with thousands of others that use heat or energy as catalyst, doesn't happen in nature all by itself is naive. Nobody is setting anything up and nobody is 'directing' energy to do work in these chemical reactions.

You need to read up on chemical reactions, work, energy, etc, from valid scientific sources before you try to comment on laws of thermodynamics. The laws of thermodynamics are mathematical statements that deal with heat and work, not some mystical explaination for 'chaos' or 'directed energy'. If you can't show the math, or the mechanisms, then you can't suggest (with any credibility) that something violates these laws (if you want to be taken seriously).

I would stick to physics and chemistry books, and not random sites from the internet.

 

[TigerForce]

I sold those books back to the college bookstore for $10 LOL. And I aint spending $89 to get them back. Anyways I do have to go now I need to study for Politics and Foreign Policy exam for thursday and i have a paper due in Latin American Studies on Wednesday.
It has been a pleasure talking to you notto. Maybe again we will discuss this.
there can be no argument that everyone needs GOD. I encourage you to find a place of worship and discuss your future with a BIBLE believing pastor. Eternity depends on it bro.
In GOD's love,
TF

 

[notto]

I sold those books back to the college bookstore for $10 LOL. And I aint spending $89 to get them back. Anyways I do have to go now I need to study for Politics and Foreign Policy exam for thursday and i have a paper due in Latin American Studies on Wednesday.
It has been a pleasure talking to you notto. Maybe again we will discuss this.
there can be no argument that everyone needs GOD. I encourage you to find a place of worship and discuss your future with a BIBLE believing pastor. Eternity depends on it bro.
In GOD's love,
TF

I'm a Christian already and I certainly am a bible believing one (from a theological standpoint, but the bible is not a science book) but thanks for thinking of me (evolution does not equal atheism).

I would encourage you to find a place of learning and discuss science with someone who has studied it. Your understanding of reality depends on it.

Good luck on your exam and with your paper.

 

[toff]

there can be no argument that everyone needs GOD.

Umm...yes, there can. The world's atheists disagree with you. And, assuming you mean the christian god, the world's non-christians disagree with you, too.

 

[TigerForce]

so you believe that GOD lied in Genesis? How can that happen, if GOD has no sin and GOD claims that HIS word in its entirety is perfect truth? GOD cannot lie. Therefore creation on the 6 day model has to be fact according to the BIBLE. Anything else would be calling GOD a liar. Do you believe that we came from A. Aferensis --->H. Erectus ---> H. Sapiens??? Or do you believe GOD created man? the two worlds are not symbiotic. You cannot serve two masters either you will hate the one and love the other or you will dispise one and love the other.
Oh well one day we will all know the absolute truth. I dare to say GOD gave it to us in the BIBLE from cover to cover.
May GOD bless bro
TF

 

[toff]

so you believe that GOD lied in Genesis? How can that happen, if GOD has no sin and GOD claims that HIS word in its entirety is perfect truth? GOD cannot lie. Therefore creation on the 6 day model has to be fact according to the BIBLE. Anything else would be calling GOD a liar. Do you believe that we came from A. Aferensis --->H. Erectus ---> H. Sapiens??? Or do you believe GOD created man? the two worlds are not symbiotic. You cannot serve two masters either you will hate the one and love the other or you will dispise one and love the other.
Oh well one day we will all know the absolute truth. I dare to say GOD gave it to us in the BIBLE from cover to cover.
May GOD bless bro
TF

You make a number of assumptions above, none of which are in evidence:

- you assume that god wrote the bible. He did not. It was written by men who, all agree, are capable of (even prone to) error.
- you assume that genesis is meant to be literally interpreted. This is not in evidence. In fact, there are numerous passages in the bible that ALL agree are not to be taken literally - so it is certainly not impossible that genesis is not meant to be taken literally.

Thus, saying that the creation account in genesis is not literally true is NOT calling god a liar. It is, in fact, not calling ANYONE a liar.

 

[notto]

so you believe that GOD lied in Genesis? How can that happen, if GOD has no sin and GOD claims that HIS word in its entirety is perfect truth? GOD cannot lie. Therefore creation on the 6 day model has to be fact according to the BIBLE. Anything else would be calling GOD a liar. Do you believe that we came from A. Aferensis --->H. Erectus ---> H. Sapiens??? Or do you believe GOD created man? the two worlds are not symbiotic. You cannot serve two masters either you will hate the one and love the other or you will dispise one and love the other.
Oh well one day we will all know the absolute truth. I dare to say GOD gave it to us in the BIBLE from cover to cover.
May GOD bless bro
TF

You are confusing literal with truth. God did not lie in Genesis. Genesis give us the inspired theology and spiritual information about his creation. God created. Man and everything else. I'm not serving two masters. I don't agree with your interpretation of the bible but I certainly believe in the bible.

Are you suggesting that God lied in his creation by leaving evidence of things that never happened for us to find? Can't we find the truth about how God created by examining his creation? That would seem to eliminate problems of translation, etc and give us the real 'truth' about the creation. This is what science does. This is why it was Christian scientists who first came to the conclusion that the earth is old and evolution explains the diversity of life on this planet (and that the flood was not worldwide).

 

[toff]

it was Christian scientists who first came to the conclusion that...evolution explains the diversity of life on this planet

Really? I thought it was Darwin...definitely not a christian...

 

[notto]

Really? I thought it was Darwin...definitely not a christian...

I should have separated the two. Christian scientists determined the earth was old. Theistic scientists uncovered and expliained the process of evolution (as evidenced by the words Darwin used to describe it).

 

[toff]

I should have separated the two. Christian scientists determined the earth was old. Theistic scientists uncovered and expliained the process of evolution (as evidenced by the words Darwin used to describe it).

Theistic? Hardly. Darwin was an agnostic at best. And rather than the term "christian scientists", I would instead use the term "scientists (who happened to be christian)", for their christianity had nothing to do with their science (as it shoudln't).

 

[notto]

Theistic? Hardly. Darwin was an agnostic at best. And rather than the term "christian scientists", I would instead use the term "scientists (who happened to be christian)", for their christianity had nothing to do with their science (as it shoudln't).

Well, Darwin certianly credited a creator in his work.

Of course christianity had nothing to do with their science (except to encourage them to investigate creation), they were good scientists, but they where certainly Christian scientists.

Why the nitpick?

 

[wblastyn]

Theistic? Hardly. Darwin was an agnostic at best. And rather than the term "christian scientists", I would instead use the term "scientists (who happened to be christian)", for their christianity had nothing to do with their science (as it shoudln't).

He was a Christian up until his daughter died, then he became agnostic.

 

[toff]

He was a Christian up until his daughter died, then he became agnostic.

No, in fact, his christianity faded well before then. Check his autobiography.

 

[wblastyn]

Well the point is he used to be a Christian.

 

[USincognito]

I am not a biochemist or biology or anthropology major. To be honest I am a Secondary Education/ Political science major. I know the Constitution and some governmental workings

Please tell me you were joking when you typed this.

 

[orange]

Who protect the Evolution they act like mafia, what is why I said they are mafie.
They persecute Creationists from their jobs, when they say truth about Evolution, see movies of science. They dont let that to teach Creation in Schools . Is it not mafia?
Real science must act with arguments but not persecute and with forbiding to teach the Creation.
And I see you also have not any arguments and facts.
Only with your very many words you cover my topic, what is all.
So I repeat my words.

Evolution have not any facts and any arguments, it have only lies.Read books please.
All know this, But I am not about that, it already proved.It have proved long ago alraedy.
I am about other thing, that there is big mafia with name of science, which work against the
simple,clear truths by ruling with Devil in worldwide.And Creation already is proved that it is
very very right by science, by science point of view .
And this mafia dont let that in Schools to teach Creation having not a right to do so.
If Creation would have been taught with Evolution it will clearly show all foolishness and all nonsens of Evolution, what is all.
Orange in Christ

 

[Jet Black]

Evolution have not any facts and any arguments, it have only lies.Read books please.

I have read the books, I have told you this twice already. There is an absolute ton of evidence. I suggest Futuyama's evolutionary biology, Maynard Smith's "The Theory of evolution", Climbing mount improbable and River Out of Eden by Richard Dawkins, The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin. These are all replete with vast quantities of evidence for evolution. I implore you to read them rather than continuing with this false witness.

 

[AV1611VET]

The basic tenet of Creationism is that if anything doesn't agree with their literalist interpretation of the Bible-- no matter what the evidence-- then it has to be wrong ...

Is something wrong with that?