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ALL of the Bible is evidence for God, every jot and ever tittle. The Word of God will never fail.Nathan Poe said:Now, let's examine his claim that "the Bible is proof of God."
JohnR7 said:ALL of the Bible is evidence for God, every jot and ever tittle. The Word of God will never fail.
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Being head of a center based on contradictions I guess it wouldn't bother him that his "evidence of God" is full of them.JohnR7 said:head of the Center for Theology and Science
It's not just one rule.JohnR7 said:Is there a rule somewhere that says I have so say something, anything? Could you show me that rule?
You don't know what God says. You assume you know because you choose to believe in unverified claims of men you never knew. Even the existence of God is only an assumption and yet, you expect that your assumption of his existence, coupled with your assumption that the Bible is God's word is going to be compelling to those who understand what does and doesn't constitute evidence, and realize there is no evidence in support of God's existence or any tie between a supernatural entity and the Bible.JohnR7 said:It is not what I say, it is what God says and what the Bible says that counts. We need to check everything out with the word of God to see if we can verify it or not.
What do you think he "contradicts" the Bible? Or man made science? The general rule of thumb is to let God be true and every man a liar. Actually, Wise is about the only person I know that argues that God created the universe with an appearance of age. He does not believe that God did that with intention. The universe just looks that way to us according to Dr Wise.Beastt said:Being head of a center based on contradictions I guess it wouldn't bother him that his "evidence of God" is full of them.
Beastt said:
Beastt said:You don't know what God says.
You assume you know because you choose to believe in unverified claims of men you never knew.
Even the existence of God is only an assumption
what does and doesn't constitute evidence, and realize there is no evidence in support of God's existence or any tie between a supernatural entity and the Bible.
If the Bible were his word, it would demonstrate that knowledge.
JohnR7 said:I am fully aware that there are people on this board who do not take the truth serious. Actually they do not belong here. They should be on the General Apologetics forum, because Science claims they can neither confirm nor deny God.
No you don't because you don't know that what you hope is his word, really is. It's just an assumption, built upon desire to believe. It was written by men. It has always been known to have been written by men. "Men", John. Not God, but men.JohnR7 said:I know what God tells us in His written word to us.
So did the since deconverted Christians. The concept simply fails under scrutiny. Christianity certainly isn't the only religion for which people claim "spiritual experiences". And it has no greater hold over its members than do other religions. People believe, assume they've had this supposed experience of the Holy Ghost, then realize it wasn't what they had hoped it to be all of the time. In just eleven years, the U.S. has shown a decline in those who identify themselves as Christian of 9.7%. When you consider the number of people that represents, it's pretty obvious that the Holy Ghost has been wholly unconvincing, long-term, for a numerically significant number of people. When you observe that Canada, Australia and New Zealand have shown a similar decline over a similar period of time, the concept of the Holy Ghost spirals to the ground in flames.JohnR7 said:I believe in the witness and the testimony of the Holy Spirit of God that was given to us to lead us and guide us into all truth.
Claims alone mean very little, John. Were you able to show any hint of knowledge not provided by man and the experiences of the real, (physical) world, perhaps your claim would have merit. But what you continually demonstrate on this board is verification that your claim here holds no substance.JohnR7 said:He is our comforter and our teacher. So we do not need man to teach us anything, because we are taught of God.
And if I were to talk to trained medical professionals with the evidence provided by your medical records, I would be given credible, demonstrable explanations as to why your biological processes continue today.JohnR7 said:If you were to talk to my wife, she is positive that "assumption" is why I am alive right now and why she still has a husband.
Lance Armstrong's first wife felt the same way about the fact that he survived cancer. His doctors, after the fact, gave him only a 2% chance of survival. People want to claim his survival as "miraculous" but it was only a numerically unlikely outcome. Were you to find 99 more people in his condition, one of those would likely survive. Two-percent doesn't mean certain death. It means survival is unlikely, but possible. He survived. And being firmly planted in reason, he gives no credit to any spiritual entity. Your wife is likely as immersed in her desires that her beliefs be true as are you. Why should I find her delusions more compelling than those you hold and present yourself?JohnR7 said:She gives God all of the credit for healing me and keeping me alive. There is nothing you can do and nothing you can say that will change her mind on that.
That's utter nonsense, John. Had you not had proper medical care, your biological processes would likely have ceased and your sentience would discontinue along with them. But you and your wife didn't demonstrate your faith by leaving it up to your God. Instead you followed reason and sought the help of men and science. And as soon as men and science did what you hoped they could do, you turned right back around, denied them any credit, and displace that credit back to your being of desire -- God.JohnR7 said:The evidence is that I am still alive to have this conversation with you to try and show you the truth of God's love for lost humanity.
No, John, you can't know that. You can believe it. You can deny the reality around you in pursuit of your desires. But you can't know what you can't demonstrate to be true. Anything you hold to be true which remains beyond demonstrability is "belief" and only belief.JohnR7 said:So you can know that God has a good future for you and the He plans good things for you if you will allow Him to do a work in your life.
Do you live on a flat planet which remains stationary at the center of the universe with a sun, stars and moon which circle it within it's own atmosphere? Do you live below an atmosphere which is the dividing wall between the oceans on the planet and an immense reservoir of water above that atmosphere? Do you live on a planet where water remains liquid no matter how cold it gets? Do you live on a planet where green plants grow in near total darkness? The Bible is true to you only because when you encounter the many untruths it presents, you expend time and energy to interpret your way around those untruths.JohnR7 said:The Bible has always demonstrated itself as being the truth to me.
Which only serves to demonstrate why you believe it's true. You won't allow yourself to see the untruths. You intentionally and willfully blind yourself to it and take that process to such incredible extremes that you will boldly and blatantly proclaim you have evidence which supports the Bible against the contrary findings of science. Then when asked for the evidence, you play games of drawn-out evasion because even you know that the evidence doesn't exist. You simply want it to exist so much that you will proclaim that it does. But when pressed to provide the evidence, you continually fail. Then days or weeks later, you again produce the decidedly dishonest claim of evidence again.JohnR7 said:There has never been any question in my mind that it is all true.
You're right, John. Men cannot be trusted. That's why science relies upon evidence. In science, no matter how much men might proclaim anything to be true or untrue, only the evidence may be allowed to have the final word. But you deny this evidence and instead turn to the claims of men -- that their writings were actually those of God -- and through their falsified claims, deny the demonstrations of the evidence.JohnR7 said:The only thing your doing is confirming that man can not be trusted.
But the God in which you place your faith, hope, love and trust was born in the words of the men you've correctly claimed can't be trusted. God is not a construct of your own making. He is a construct of men, held in their writings and demonstrated to be false by the very nature of that which he is said to have created. The evidence will always speak the truth because it has no agenda, no emotion and no sentience. It lacks the ability to lie or distort. You instead turn to the claims of men who are betrayed by the very evidence they present as supportive of their claims. Everything about religions is based in the claims of men. The bibles are always the work of men. The indoctrination of others is always performed by men. The only evidence any ever present are the subjective experiences of men. Never do they present anything not produced, created or devised by men. And yet you tell us the men cannot be trusted. Then you ignore the evidence which lacks the ability to do other than provide the truth. And you ignore that evidence because you are uncomfortable with the truth. The truth denies you your desired beliefs so you reject it.JohnR7 said:So it is obvious that we need to put our faith, hope, love and trust in the God who created us and this universe.
It will never happen, John. If you live another 30 years, or 50, or 100 or 1000 or even 10,000 years, you'll never live to see this occur just as you will never see the return of Jesus. You can proclaim the words of men all you like. But in the end, the evidence of reality will have the final say. And what it is already telling you is that your beliefs are destined to failure.JohnR7 said:He is restoring this universe back to His plan and purpose so that the whole earth will become as Eden was. All of the earth will become a "paradise". It is reserved for those who walk in obedience and do everything they can to live right before God.
And even men who claim they are not the product of evolution carry within their bodies the evolutionary history of their DNA.JohnR7 said:Even people who claim they do not know God, but they live by His moral law, they reap the benifit of that.
Beastt said:No you don't because you don't know that what you hope is his word, really is. It's just an assumption, built upon desire to believe. It was written by men. It has always been known to have been written by men. "Men", John. Not God, but men.
So did the since deconverted Christians.
Were you able to show any hint of knowledge not provided by man and the experiences of the real,
And if I were to talk to trained medical professionals with the evidence provided by your medical records, I would be given credible, demonstrable explanations as to why your biological processes continue today.
2% chance of survival.
But you and your wife didn't demonstrate your faith by leaving it up to your God.
First you say this, then you proclaim that you aren't the topic. It would appear that while you wish to believe that this does nothing but present me, you ultimately recognize that it is about you.JohnR7 said:All your doing is telling me about yourself.
Of course not, John. He doesn't exist. Therefore he can't give anything to us and never has.JohnR7 said:God does not give it to us to judge others.
We can still judge others, John. We have elaborate court rooms and a justice system specifically for that purpose. And in that you'll note that what your proclaimed God has or hasn't given us obviously has no bearing on what we do or don't have, or can and can't do.JohnR7 said:They can only judge themselves.
Why would you assume yourself to be the topic when you have already proclaimed that my posts only illustrate me? The topic here, John, is your beliefs, my beliefs and the beliefs of all others. If you're not here for that topic, then why are you here?JohnR7 said:I am nto the topic here anyways.
JohnR7 said:ALL of the Bible is evidence for God, every jot and ever tittle. The Word of God will never fail.
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I think that is one thing that we can all agree on: why do we bother?Nathan Poe said:And now comes the part where the rest of us wonder why we bother.
Now comes the part where you're supposed to back it up...
I've been wondering the same thing.Nathan Poe said:And now comes the part where the rest of us wonder why we bother.
Welcome to the forums!kangitanka said:I've been wondering the same thing.
I lurked around here for a while before joining and what I have seen in the past few months are some people making claims with no evidence (JohnR7, dad, AV1611VET, and a few others come to mind) over and over again. Others keep asking them (ad nauseum) to back up their assertions with evidence, yet no evidence is put forth.
And yet people continue debating with them.
Why? It's been shown that evidence will not come forth from these people, so why bother? Why give them the apparent ego boost from the attention they gain? Really all that is happening is that those asking for evidence are doing nothing more than the equivalent of banging their head against a wall.
Ive just discovered the 'ignore' feature, btw
Generalizations do not evidence makeJohnR7 said:The evidence is in the Bible
All of it.JohnR7 said:How much of the Bible have you read? Any at all?
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