Creationism is NOT Biblical

[AV1611VET]

The fact that Jesus and the disciples never mentioned evolution does not make it wrong.

Jesus and His disciples didn't have to mention evolution --- all they had to do was present its antithesis as the truth.

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[busterdog]

Secular evidence will confirm no such thing. The mtDNA extracted from Mungo man shows that he was not descended from Mitochondrial Eve, and yet he was a modern human.

But even if the evidence did support your position, it's hypocritical to use science when it suits you but completely ignore it when it doesn't.

"Show" presumptively means prove beyond doubt. Is that what you are saying? Maybe you should check your sources about Mungo man, which is not overwhelming evidence of anything. It is some evidence, but not proof of anything. It is one dubious skeleton, about which there is little confirming data.

Since when is one (allegedly) 62,000 year old skelleton and its allegedly incorrupt DNA "proof" of anything?

That doesn't mean it isnt some evidence for the proposition, but I only say that because I am able to deal with aberrant evidence. As for words like "hypocrtical", I suggest you study up on Mungo man.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mung...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I dont think Mitochondrial Eve is "proof" of the Bible account. I find it very interesting that Mitochondrial Eve corresponds to a bottleneck represented in the story of Noah, whose sons all took wives, who presumptively were not sisters. In this very simple method of experimentation, the butter side of Biblical toast always seems to be on top when the toast hits the floor. I don't need proof. I am happy that everything Biblical remains perfectly plausible. Evolution is itself a plausible theory at best, but it keeps getting pushed as dogma.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Sorry, you've just shown that you don't understand who Mitochondrial Eve is.

It is perfectly possible for a modern human being of 40,000 years ago to be a descendant of one of her siblings rather than her.

She is still the common female ancestor of the whole human race of today.

Mungo man is simply a fossil of one of the many human lineages which have completely died out since her generation.

Why are you so adamantly against God's Word? Have you ever met Jesus Christ by revelation, which Paul prayed all would do? He elevates His Word above all His name, but you cast it off as unfit for belief.

In Genesis 2, it is told that YHWH took a rib from the first created human being/Adam 'ish' and built a human being/Adam ishyah for him. The Adam ish from whose rib she was built called her name Eve/ life, because she was the mother [em] of all the living [the living "sons of God"] seed; which seed was created in the loins of the Adam ish to come forth in their kind, by the multiplication commanded Genesis 1:26-28; Genesis 5:2; Malachi 2:15; Luke 3:38].

But the sons of God of the human being/Adam kind seed, all died in the loins of the first 'ab/father of our race, when the glory departed from the being called Adam, at the fall: for that reason we who are born dead in Adam must be born again in the second Man's name to have life -which is a freewill choice for "whosoever will".
If there is no second birth into the Living Spirit then there will be no morphosis in the resurrection of the old man/ Adam body; and the souls s who are resurrected in the old dead Adam will be resurrected in the same Adam nature, cursed and without hope for morphosis into the glorious image of the son of God. Those cursed to the resurrection of death will be undying worms" cut off from the Light and rejects in lake of fire [which is the blackness of darkness], forever.

This unceasing wrangling over the Words of God and dismissal of them is a smokescreen to keep souls from facing the facts of life: in Adam all die; in Christ all are made alive -whosoever will.

There is no such thing as evolution: there is only the creation of sons of God. The sons of God were created to be "houses" for the Glory to indwell of the Unseen Glory.
The Word of God is about the fall of the particular Prince of God, the Adam; and is about the preplanned Ransom of the lost seed who were created/designed and written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world, who were to be ransomed by the Kinsman/Redeemer to Adam. YHWH the Word is come incarnate, in a designed body of second human being flesh as that Kinsman; as the brother to Adam who has the power and the will to do the duty of Kinsman and ransom the lost property.

When He speaks in His Word He tells the Truth, because He is truth, and when dead in Adam persons speak against His word, they only lie.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

God come in flesh is the second "Ish", the Israel Ish [ISaiah 59; Isaiah 49]; and He has atoned for Adam by His Kinsman blood. Now that He is come [as promised from the time of the fall but prepared as "the Lamb", to come, from before the foundation of the world ], no one has to die the second death of eternal separation from the Glory, and be undying worms cast into the lake of fire forever -with no hope there for the translation to the glorious image of the sons of God.
This pseudo "science so called", of evolution and great ages for creation, is bah humbug! -made up with help from the enemy of God, and made up to blind and destroy souls: souls for whom Jesus is come to redeem by His blood; to cleanse and adopt them to Himself, into His New Man name, "for the Glory to indwell" -in the regeneration of the heavens and the earth.

 

[gluadys]

Have you ever met Jesus Christ by revelation,

AS a matter of fact I have. And in the light of that Word, the Word made flesh, I judge all lesser words.

I make no boast, for I expect other posters here who are convinced of the appropriate non-literal interpretation of scripture also have their testimony of personal experience with Christ.

So who are you that presumes to judge one whom God has already redeemed?

This is typical of anti-evolutionists: to turn from a discussion of science and/or scripture into ad hominem attacks.

So for the umpteenth time:

I have no problem with God's Word.
I have every problem with your handling of God's Word.

Are you really incapable of understanding the difference?
Why do you react to a disagreement with you as if it were a disagreement with God? It may come as surprising news to you, but you are not God. And so you are not my judge.

 

[marlowe007]

That doesn't mean it isnt some evidence for the proposition, but I only say that because I am able to deal with aberrant evidence. As for words like "hypocrtical", I suggest you study up on Mungo man.

But he did not dispute the ANU team's claim that Mungo Man challenged the prevailing "out of Africa" theory of evolution because its completely modern skeleton and DNA had no links with human ancestors from Africa found in other parts of the world.
"The genetics and the mitochondrial data stand alone," Bowler told Reuters.
"It wouldn't matter if it was 20,000 or 60,000 years -- to be extracting mitochondrial DNA from that bone is extraordinary and the implications don't change," he said.

^ Reality exists regardless of whether it is recognized or not. Mungo man wasn't descended from Mitochondrial Eve, and no amount of religious bias can change that fact.

But this shouldn't matter to you, because your view of origins doesn't hinge on the legitimacy of the Mitochondrial Eve theory. In any case, the mainstream scientists don't regard this theory as confirmation of the Genesis account, or else they would all be creationists.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

AS a matter of fact I have. And in the light of that Word, the Word made flesh, I judge all lesser words.

I make no boast, for I expect other posters here who are convinced of the appropriate non-literal interpretation of scripture also have their testimony of personal experience with Christ.

So who are you that presumes to judge one whom God has already redeemed?

This is typical of anti-evolutionists: to turn from a discussion of science and/or scripture into ad hominem attacks.

So for the umpteenth time:

I have no problem with God's Word.
I have every problem with your handling of God's Word.

Are you really incapable of understanding the difference?
Why do you react to a disagreement with you as if it were a disagreement with God? It may come as surprising news to you, but you are not God. And so you are not my judge.

You have a problem with God's word indeed, do you not? You do not believe this;
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
or this;
Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed/sons of God.
or this;
Genesis 5:1 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created Adam, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created;
do you?

Jesus' Words are the judge, which all we all will be judged by.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Anyone who fears God will not reject the words of Jesus as absolute truth, because
He Himself is “Truth”. He is the One who spoke to the prophets from the beginning. The prophets wrote what He inspired. He is “God the Word“ who spoke from the beginning, and He is come in flesh, and His Words -from the beginning- are True.

Psa 119:160 Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever.


I cannot understand how anyone who has submitted to Jesus Christ can spew the words of evolutionary theories; which are the words of death; which bring no light and no life to the hearers and readers.
If one is born of the Water of the Word -the Living Water/Christ the Living Spirit then out of their inmost being will flow rivers of living water - Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

BTW: so where is the Scripture written, that has said “He that believes on Me, out of his inmost being shall flow rivers of living water”?

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

Psa 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:25 just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,

 

[gluadys]

You have a problem with God's word indeed, do you not? You do not believe this;

Just because I don't understand scripture in the same concordist way that you do does not mean I don't believe scripture. No, I don't have a problem with any of the passages you cited.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Just because I don't understand scripture in the same concordist way that you do does not mean I don't believe scripture. No, I don't have a problem with any of the passages you cited.

So you don't have "a problem" -for others to believe it is truth; but you just don't believe it is absolute truth, do you?

You do not believe this; Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

-this; Mal 2:15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed/sons of God.
or this;
or this; Genesis 5:1 This [is] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created Adam, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created;
do you?.

 

[gluadys]

So you don't have "a problem" -for others to believe it is truth; but you just don't believe it is absolute truth, do you?

You do not believe this;

You think you know what I believe, do you? Sorry, but you really have no idea.

 

[Mallon]

You think you know what I believe, do you? Sorry, but you really have no idea.

I know just how you're feeling, gluadys. May God grant you patience.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You think you know what I believe, do you? Sorry, but you really have no idea.

Ma'am,
What dwells in a man's heart flows out as words of faith or as words of unbelief in the Truth of the Scriptures.
Evolutionists are not filled with belief in the the Words of YHWH, who from the beginning of creation spoke through His prophets and who is now come in flesh -since the incarnation. But evolutionists are filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging.
The myriads of evolutionary myths are built on no solid foundation, but are built on unstable and shifting sands; which sands change shape and reform themselves like clouds of vapor, with every wind of delusion that blows by.
There is so much instruction in God's Word written to us about the good rewards of trusting in His Words or the rewards of unbelief in His Words.


Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary [food].
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

Psa 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

Psa 50:16 But to the wicked God says:
"What right have you to declare My statutes,
Or take My covenant in your mouth,

Psa 50:21
You thought that I was altogether like you;
But I will rebuke you,
And set them in order before your eyes.

Psa 50:23 Whoever offers praise glorifies Me;
And to him who orders his conversation aright
I will show the salvation of God."

Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Luk 6:44-49
"For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
"But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?
"Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like:
"He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock.
"But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell.And the ruin of that house was great."

Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[Assyrian]

So yeshuasavedme, is it just TEs are filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging?

Or does this apply to YECs who who build their house on the shifting sands of heliocentrism?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

So yeshuasavedme, is it just TEs are filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging?

Or does this apply to YECs who who build their house on the shifting sands of heliocentrism?

.
Have "they" "heard" what God has said and denied the truth of His word on the matters? Do they turn instead to "hear" and believe and defend and promote the lies of devils?

Eve was deceived to doubt the simple truth of the Word of God, and so she ate the fruit. She then became the mouthpiece of the devil and tempted her husband for the devil, to doubt God. So here we all are; dead in Adam because of our first father's unbelief in the Word of God.

Jesus never fell for the devil's lies, and when the devil used the Word of God falsely, Jesus rebuked him -even when the devil used Peter, once.
So we should learn the lesson of obedience to, and belief in, the simple and straightforward Word of God. Theistic evolution is a lie of the devil, and the whole message of the Gospel is that in Adam all die and in Christ all are made alive -whosoever will.
In Adam all die. We human beings are all seed multiplied in Adam, and in Adam we are dead in spirit and dead in body, and have no hope for the glory of the sons of God to indwell us, as He did our first father and mother.
The Gospel is about YHWH coming as the Kinsman/Redeemer of the dead, former son of God, Adam; to ransom our souls by His Atonement; so that we could His adopted sons and be redressed in the glorious garments of the second creation human being Son of God to be fit to be united with the Glory of the Unseen Father; which Glory Adam was created to be a house for, but lost irrevocably in the fall.

Luke 3:38 says ...Adam, "son of God"; but Adam is not son of God since the fall, which is why we wear clothes to cover the vanity and shame of our ruin. TE denies this absolute Truth of the fall and the reason for YHWH clothing Himself in a second creation human being body to be the Kinsman to Adam for redemption of the kingdom made for Adam and for the redemption of the lost seed.

 

[Mallon]

So yeshuasavedme, is it just TEs are filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging?

Or does this apply to YECs who who build their house on the shifting sands of heliocentrism?

Given that there are maybe four people in the world who subscribe to geocentrism, I suspect yeshuasavedme's words would apply to virtually the entire world since the time of Galileo, including nearly all Christians.
No doubt she thinks she's the only one on these forums who hasn't succumbed to the devil's lies. And I'm sure we'll never stop hearing about it from her.

 

[shernren]

Given that there are maybe four people in the world who subscribe to geocentrism, I suspect yeshuasavedme's words would apply to virtually the entire world since the time of Galileo, including nearly all Christians.
No doubt she thinks she's the only one on these forums who hasn't succumbed to the devil's lies. And I'm sure we'll never stop hearing about it from her.

That book Flat Earth that I was quoting says that about half (or a similarly significant proportion) of kids, before receiving any formal education on the matter (though still being exposed of course to our heliocentrist media), think the Sun goes around the Earth and not vice versa. That's a lot more than four.

Maybe that's why kids who die before ten go to heaven automatically*.

*with apologies to those who hold firmly to the doctrine of the age of accountability. I happen to think it makes a little teensy-weensy bit of sense but that the Bible can't really decide things one way or another.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That book Flat Earth that I was quoting says that about half (or a similarly significant proportion) of kids, before receiving any formal education on the matter (though still being exposed of course to our heliocentrist media), think the Sun goes around the Earth and not vice versa. That's a lot more than four.

Maybe that's why kids who die before ten go to heaven automatically*.

*with apologies to those who hold firmly to the doctrine of the age of accountability. I happen to think it makes a little teensy-weensy bit of sense but that the Bible can't really decide things one way or another.

Actually, the Word does teach us that Jesus came to atone for the whole race of Adam [Gen 3:15], as we were all seed in the loins of the head of our race, so to speak [Hbr 7:9,10], who died in Adam and who received the promise of redemption in the Seed of the Woman who was to come [the Woman is the personified Zion of the Spirit, the mother of all the redeemed, and Jesus Christ is come as the Foundation Stone laid in Zion, for the building of the second Temple of human beings made for the Glory to indwell: [Haggai 2]; and babies -or mental babies/retarded who grow up without understanding- and who die before understanding good or evil, and so do no good or evil with understanding are His own, ransomed by the blood of Atonement, souls, who, in Adam, are made in His image and who will be resurrected to life in His name -but without rewards for either good or evil done with understanding.

 

[Assyrian]

.
Have "they" "heard" what God has said and denied the truth of His word on the matters? Do they turn instead to "hear" and believe and defend and promote the lies of devils?

You seem quite coy there yeshuasavedme. You are quick to condemn Glaudys and Mallon. Why not tell the YECs how they are unbelievers too? You have told them about biblical geocentrism and they refuse to believe, and you are not the first geocentrist on the forum either, while they are tired of hearing from us that the plain literal interpretation of scripture is geocentric. So, are the heliocentrist YECs "filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging"?

Eve was deceived to doubt the simple truth of the Word of God, and so she ate the fruit. She then became the mouthpiece of the devil and tempted her husband for the devil, to doubt God. So here we all are; dead in Adam because of our first father's unbelief in the Word of God.

Why do you think it was the devil? Genesis says it was a snake who tempted Eve. There is no mention of the devil in the account. The snake deceived Eve, and she gave the fruit to her husband. You talk about doubting the simple word of God, yet you abandon the literal reading of the text in the very example you chose.

You made this claim about scripture being simple before, but you haven't answered my reply.

You go to great lengths to disprove the Scriptures, when the Scriptures themselves are so straightforward themselves.

Just because I disagree with you does not mean I am trying to 'disprove scripture' I am just pointing out the flaws in you interpretation. As for the scriptures being straightforward, whatever makes you think that?

2Pet 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand.

Heb 5:11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food.

John 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

Mark 8:21 And he said to them, "Do you not yet understand?"

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What makes you think scriptures are straighforward?

Jesus never fell for the devil's lies, and when the devil used the Word of God falsely, Jesus rebuked him -even when the devil used Peter, once.
So we should learn the lesson of obedience to, and belief in, the simple and straightforward Word of God.

Isn't that a bit problematic for a follower of Christ? People who tried to take Jesus' statements as simple and straightforward actually misunderstood what he was saying, from Nicodemus who took Jesus literally when he said you must be born again, to the disciples who left when Jesus said they had to eat his flesh and drink his blood. On the other had, the devil was quite the literalist when he tempted Jesus. Mat 4:6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, "'He will command his angels concerning you,' and "'On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"

Theistic evolution is a lie of the devil, and the whole message of the Gospel is that in Adam all die and in Christ all are made alive -whosoever will.

Oddly enough though, Adam never features in any actual Gospel presentations, whether given to Jews or Gentiles. Instead the verses that discuss Adam in relation to Christ and the gospel come up in two epistles written to people who are already Christians. If dying in Adam is a vital part of the gospel message why was it never preached when the gospel was preached in Acts?

In Adam all die. We human beings are all seed multiplied in Adam, and in Adam we are dead in spirit and dead in body, and have no hope for the glory of the sons of God to indwell us, as He did our first father and mother.

The odd thing about that verse is the tense of the verb is wrong. You believed we all died in Adam when he sinned. But Paul says we die, present tense, in Adam. Adam himself is long dead and his body returned to the ground. So how are we 'in Adam' now? How do people still continue to die 'in Adam' today? Could it be that what Paul is saying is not a simple and straightforward as you think?

The Gospel is about YHWH coming as the Kinsman/Redeemer of the dead, former son of God, Adam; to ransom our souls by His Atonement; so that we could His adopted sons and be redressed in the glorious garments of the second creation human being Son of God to be fit to be united with the Glory of the Unseen Father; which Glory Adam was created to be a house for, but lost irrevocably in the fall.

The kinsman redeemer is a beautiful allegory of the gospel, but I think there are two things to point out, firstly the important thing is that Christ is our kinsman redeemer, not Adam's, and secondly you can read too much into OT pictures, Jesus was the fulfilment of the passover lamb, but that does not mean all of the details of the passover lamb have to apply to Jesus, after all he was not a year old sheep.

Luke 3:38 says ...Adam, "son of God"; but Adam is not son of God since the fall, which is why we wear clothes to cover the vanity and shame of our ruin. TE denies this absolute Truth of the fall and the reason for YHWH clothing Himself in a second creation human being body to be the Kinsman to Adam for redemption of the kingdom made for Adam and for the redemption of the lost seed.

Adam never was the literal son of God. God created the human race. He didn't beget us. That is why John describes Jesus as God's only begotten son.

Actually, the Word does teach us that Jesus came to atone for the whole race of Adam [Gen 3:15], as we were all seed in the loins of the head of our race, so to speak [Hbr 7:9,10], who died in Adam and who received the promise of redemption in the Seed of the Woman who was to come [the Woman is the personified Zion of the Spirit, the mother of all the redeemed, and Jesus Christ is come as the Foundation Stone laid in Zion, for the building of the second Temple of human beings made for the Glory to indwell: [Haggai 2]; and babies -or mental babies/retarded who grow up without understanding- and who die before understanding good or evil, and so do no good or evil with understanding are His own, ransomed by the blood of Atonement, souls, who, in Adam, are made in His image and who will be resurrected to life in His name -but without rewards for either good or evil done with understanding.

That is an awful lot of allegorical interpretation for someone who insists on the simple and straightforward Word of God. Genesis does not mention atoning for the whole race of Adam, just that promised seed would bruise a snake's head. As for the woman bearing the seed personifying Zion. I am afraid you have lost me there. And of course the foundation stone is a good NT allegory. I would have thought though that someone who has such a deep appreciation for the riches of non literal meaning in scripture would show a little more grace and toleration other believers who have discovered that God does not always speak in literalism.

 

[gluadys]

That is an awful lot of allegorical interpretation for someone who insists on the simple and straightforward Word of God.

Thanks, Assyrian.

My first reaction to the post by yeshuasavedme is that there was a lot in it that was highly interpretive and figurative interpretation at that--a lot that was not clear and obvious from the text.

I was going to post an analysis of all the departures from the text, but no need to repeat what you have done so well.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You seem quite coy there yeshuasavedme. You are quick to condemn Glaudys and Mallon.

Coy? -hardly. And I do not condemn the person/soul of anyone, but I do defend the Word of God, and contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. And I do use Scripture proofs against the false teaching of evolutionists.

Why do you think it was the devil? Genesis says it was a snake who tempted Eve. There is no mention of the devil in the account. The snake deceived Eve, and she gave the fruit to her husband. You talk about doubting the simple word of God, yet you abandon the literal reading of the text in the very example you chose.

Anyone who reads the ancient records knows that the devil is called Belial/beliar in the OT; and in 1 Enoch, a portion of Noah included in it gives the name of the devil who used the serpent to tempt Eve . His named is "Gadreel".

The word demons [which means the foul spirits who are the offspring of the fallen Watchers and daughters of Adam] is wrongly translated as devils in the NT; but the devils are satans who were created to tempt/test/try the faithfulness to YHWH of Adam and of angels. They were created in the first six days of creation as the tempters, for whom chaos, the lake of fire was prepared. Anyone they get to fall by their temptations gets a share in the lake of fire, with the devil [the chief] and his messengers [all the satans under him].

The Word of God states that the devil, the Satan and the satans, tempts and accuses. He uses agents -like he always does do, except when he/the chief of the satans, appears in person -as he did to Jesus and to Abraham [in the record of Jasher].
In Genesis 3:15, the Seed of the Woman [Zion of the heavenlies, personified] was to slay the head/the chief of the serpent. - Zion is the personified City of God in which the Watchers -elect angels- dwelt in from the beginning, and is where Enoch went to dwell at his translation; and is where all the saints who are born again in Christ go to, since His ascension, when He led captivity [the first death which kept all Adam souls captive] captive; and took all who dwelt in Sheol below who waited for the promise of the Atonement, to dwell in that city.

Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, -I'll deal with that in another post.


1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it [her seed] shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jhn 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Adam never was the literal son of God. God created the human race. He didn't beget us. That is why John describes Jesus as God's only begotten son.

Oh yes he was. Luke 3:38; ...Adam, son of God. YHWH told Abraham to take his only begotten son, Isaac, and sacrifice him. Isaac was the second son of Abraham.
Abraham served as a living prophet and rehearsed the Day of Atonement, with Isaac serving as a living prophet of that Day, also. For that reason, Jesus said; "Abraham rejoiced to see my Day, and he saw it and was glad".
Adam is the first human being son of God; Jesus Christ. as the Israel of God, is the second human being son of God, and the "only begotten" of the Father; for in the fall; "Adam died, dies, and continues to die until he is dead" -Ken Ham on Genesis 3.
The first death is that of the spirit of Adam, which is the spirit of the flesh of the Adam body. At the fall the Glory departed from "Adam son of God" , and death and corruption entered the former son of God's body and entire kingdom. The body is dead because of sin; and that is why born again in Christ believers submit the dead Adam body to water baptism, showing their hope of the resurrection of the dead Adam body which they continue to wear [until they are released from it], in the glorious immortal image of the New Man.


In Psalm 82, The rebellious sons of God are going to "die like Adam", the one fallen sar/prince:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=7&t=KJV#conc/7
There is an elipse [severa, in fact, in Enoch] in the fragment of Noah included in 1 Enoch, but at one point, the chief satans are named who tempted the watchers to fall, and the particular one who tempted Eve through the serpent is "Gadreel": We know he used a serpent, in Genesis, but we do not know what that serpent was because so many books are lost since the temple was burned and the Jews were scattered the first time and the second and all the libraries of all the nations of the world were always burned or destroyed when invaders conquered.
We also know he uses mouthpieces of fallen angels and fallen Adam persons in all the Bible.

1Ki 22:19-22 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

Enoch 69
4 The name of the first Jeqon: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them 5 down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeel: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled 6 their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons 7 of death to the children of men.

The Watchers themselves were tempted and succumbed to the temptations of satan, to take daughters of Adam for wives and to beget sons, illegally.

Enoch 54 4 And I asked the angel of peace who went with me, saying: ' For whom are these chains being prepared ? ' And he said unto me: ' These are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel, so that they may take them and cast them into the abyss of complete condemnation, and they shall cover their jaws with rough stones as the Lord of Spirits commanded. 6 And Michael, and Gabriel, and Raphael, and Phanuel shall take hold of them on that great day, and cast them on that day into the burning furnace, that the Lord of Spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness in becoming subject to Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth.'

Genesis does not mention atoning for the whole race of Adam.

Just as Levi paid tithes in Abraham, so the entire race of Adam was promised the Redeemer, in Genesis 3:15. That promise was explained in 1 Enoch as being the Son of Man who was in heaven from the beginning; who was with God and who was God; who was to come and redeem the lost and restore/ transform the heavens and the earth and give them back to the Father, for the Glory of the Unseen Father to unite with the regenerated/transformed heavens and earth, through the Son. He was the Son of Man in heaven, who was "hidden in heaven" until the time of His revealing to the "elect" -those called in His name, who freely choose to live the "elect" life. Only Enoch saw Him and reported what he saw, and gave the writings of Him to all his descendents. the entire human race is descended from Enoch and they all once knew the story of the fall and the plan for the redemption, as Paul reminds us; Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Hbr 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Hbr 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

 

[Assyrian]

You seem quite coy there yeshuasavedme. You are quick to condemn Glaudys and Mallon. Why not tell the YECs how they are unbelievers too? You have told them about biblical geocentrism and they refuse to believe, and you are not the first geocentrist on the forum either, while they are tired of hearing from us that the plain literal interpretation of scripture is geocentric. So, are the heliocentrist YECs "filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging"?

You seem quite coy there yeshuasavedme. You are quick to condemn Glaudys and Mallon.

Coy? -hardly. And I do not condemn the person/soul of anyone, but I do defend the Word of God, and contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. And I do use Scripture proofs against the false teaching of evolutionists.

Coy? Clearly. Look how you left out the main part in my paragraph (in red) asking why you don't condemn heliocentrist YECs the way you do TEs.

Why not tell heliocentrist YECs:

What dwells in a man's heart flows out as words of faith or as words of unbelief in the Truth of the Scriptures. Heliocentrist YECs are not filled with belief in the the Words of YHWH,

But Heliocentrist YECs are filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings, whose words cannot be trusted; do not save; cannot give everlasting life; and who are not steadfast and unchanging.

Why are you so adamantly against God's Word? Have you ever met Jesus Christ by revelation, which Paul prayed all would do? He elevates His Word above all His name, but you cast it off as unfit for belief.

You have a problem with God's word indeed, do you not? You do not believe this... [insert geocentist verses here]

You are so "accommodating" to the devil's lies!

​

Anyone who reads the ancient records knows that the devil is called Belial/beliar in the OT; and in 1 Enoch, a portion of Noah included in it gives the name of the devil who used the serpent to tempt Eve . His named is "Gadreel".

The word demons [which means the foul spirits who are the offspring of the fallen Watchers and daughters of Adam] is wrongly translated as devils in the NT; but the devils are satans who were created to tempt/test/try the faithfulness to YHWH of Adam and of angels. They were created in the first six days of creation as the tempters, for whom chaos, the lake of fire was prepared. Anyone they get to fall by their temptations gets a share in the lake of fire, with the devil [the chief] and his messengers [all the satans under him].

The Word of God states that the devil, the Satan and the satans, tempts and accuses. He uses agents -like he always does do, except when he/the chief of the satans, appears in person -as he did to Jesus and to Abraham [in the record of Jasher].
In Genesis 3:15, the Seed of the Woman [Zion of the heavenlies, personified] was to slay the head/the chief of the serpent. - Zion is the personified City of God in which the Watchers -elect angels- dwelt in from the beginning, and is where Enoch went to dwell at his translation; and is where all the saints who are born again in Christ go to, since His ascension, when He led captivity [the first death which kept all Adam souls captive] captive; and took all who dwelt in Sheol below who waited for the promise of the Atonement, to dwell in that city.


Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, -I'll deal with that in another post.


1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it [her seed] shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Jhn 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

This is hardly a simple and straightforward literal interpretation of the seed bruising the serpents head. Why do you have such problems with other believers who don't interpret Genesis literally either? Or is it just you non literal interpretation that is acceptable?

Adam never was the literal son of God. God created the human race. He didn't beget us. That is why John describes Jesus as God's only begotten son.

Oh yes he was. Luke 3:38; ...Adam, son of God. YHWH told Abraham to take his only begotten son, Isaac, and sacrifice him. Isaac was the second son of Abraham.
Abraham served as a living prophet and rehearsed the Day of Atonement, with Isaac serving as a living prophet of that Day, also. For that reason, Jesus said; "Abraham rejoiced to see my Day, and he saw it and was glad".
Adam is the first human being son of God; Jesus Christ. as the Israel of God, is the second human being son of God, and the "only begotten" of the Father; for in the fall; "Adam died, dies, and continues to die until he is dead" -Ken Ham on Genesis 3.
The first death is that of the spirit of Adam, which is the spirit of the flesh of the Adam body. At the fall the Glory departed from "Adam son of God" , and death and corruption entered the former son of God's body and entire kingdom. The body is dead because of sin; and that is why born again in Christ believers submit the dead Adam body to water baptism, showing their hope of the resurrection of the dead Adam body which they continue to wear [until they are released from it], in the glorious immortal image of the New Man.

Interesting, you seem to be using the Douay translation of the Vulgate again. The Hebrew does not call Isaac Abraham's only begotten son. But the point is irrelevant. Adam was God creation not his literal son. The creation of Adam involved neither God having sex or a virgin birth.

Why do you listen to Ken ham? Isn't he a geocentrist filled with belief in the words of false gods of men's makings?

In Psalm 82, The rebellious sons of God are going to "die like Adam", the one fallen sar/prince:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Psa&c=82&v=7&t=KJV#conc/7
There is an elipse [severa, in fact, in Enoch] in the fragment of Noah included in 1 Enoch, but at one point, the chief satans are named who tempted the watchers to fall, and the particular one who tempted Eve through the serpent is "Gadreel": We know he used a serpent, in Genesis, but we do not know what that serpent was because so many books are lost since the temple was burned and the Jews were scattered the first time and the second and all the libraries of all the nations of the world were always burned or destroyed when invaders conquered.
We also know he uses mouthpieces of fallen angels and fallen Adam persons in all the Bible.

1Ki 22:19-22 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

The Watchers themselves were tempted and succumbed to the temptations of satan, to take daughters of Adam for wives and to beget sons, illegally.

What does this have to do with you claim Adam is God's literal son?

The problem is yeshuasavedme, you have some pretty wild speculative interpretations here. That is ok in itself. Then you build your speculative interpretations into your theology of the gospel. Still not a problem. There is plenty of room in scripture for allegorical foreshadowing of Christ and the gospel, probably much more than either of us realise. The difficulty is, because you have built your interpretations into your understanding of the gospel, you think anyone who does not accept your particular interpretation is actually denying the gospel.

Genesis does not mention atoning for the whole race of Adam.

Just as Levi paid tithes in Abraham, so the entire race of Adam was promised the Redeemer, in Genesis 3:15. That promise was explained in 1 Enoch as being the Son of Man who was in heaven from the beginning; who was with God and who was God; who was to come and redeem the lost and restore/ transform the heavens and the earth and give them back to the Father, for the Glory of the Unseen Father to unite with the regenerated/transformed heavens and earth, through the Son. He was the Son of Man in heaven, who was "hidden in heaven" until the time of His revealing to the "elect" -those called in His name, who freely choose to live the "elect" life. Only Enoch saw Him and reported what he saw, and gave the writings of Him to all his descendents. the entire human race is descended from Enoch and they all once knew the story of the fall and the plan for the redemption, as Paul reminds us; Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Hbr 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Hbr 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

I don't know why you keep quoting Enoch. You are the only one here who thinks it is scripture. Whether Enoch interpeted the promise of a seed to bruise the snakes head more widely than Genesis say does not matter. It is a non literal interpretation of Genesis. I agree that it is talking about the redemption of mankind, but the promise in Genesis, and Christ's fulfilment of the promise was not literal. Jesus did not step on a snake at Calvary.

It is worth pointing out that the whole Hebrew 7, Levi in Abraham's loins when he paid the tithe, is not a literal interpretation of the Genesis story but an allegorical one. Look at the language the writer uses Heb 7:9 (NASB) And, so to speak, (NIV) One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.
'So to speak...', or 'one might even say...' is not claiming Levi was literally in Abraham's loins, the writer is speaking figuratively and symbolically.