Creation vs. Evolution: take 139486

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Well, this was mainly set up for those people who started debating evolution in a different thread.

Guess what?! We're in the right thread now!

So, enlighten me, all you people who were gangin' up on me, since we were talking about scientific theories, how does anything come about if matter cannot be created or destroyed?

Where did we come from if there was no matter to begin with, how long ago do you think it was? Like 250 quadrillion years, or some nonsense like that?

 

[*Rob*]

Well, this was mainly set up for those people who started debating evolution in a different thread.

Guess what?! We're in the right thread now!

So, enlighten me, all you people who were gangin' up on me, since we were talking about scientific theories, how does anything come about if matter cannot be created or destroyed?

Where did we come from if there was no matter to begin with, how long ago do you think it was? Like 250 quadrillion years, or some nonsense like that?

Um, face it dude, my mum didn't come from a mans rib, there is no talking snakes and magical trees, the genesis story is a myth, get over it.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Ok. Well, that's your thought on it.
But would you answer my question please?
Where did enough matter come from to create the universe, or even just the planet Earth, if matter can't be created or destroyed?

 

[R3quiem]

There's a simple solution to this, Ernest.

Take a lot of science courses and talk with your professors.

 

[*Rob*]

Ok. Well, that's your thought on it.
But would you answer my question please?
Where did enough matter come from to create the universe, or even just the planet Earth, if matter can't be created or destroyed?

It has always existed.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Hmmm... So, if it always exsisted, then that would mean that all of the universes were never void?

That makes no sense to me. How could matter ALWAYS be there?

Unless, it wasn't... Only logical explanation...

 

[*Rob*]

Hmmm... So, if it always exsisted, then that would mean that all of the universes were never void?

That makes no sense to me. How could matter ALWAYS be there?

Unless, it wasn't... Only logical explanation...

How could god always be there, you just shot yourself in the foot there.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

I don't know if you know this, but in the Christian religion, God has always been, and always will be. It's a small thing called faith, which the scientific world denounces.

 

[GradualMetamorphosis]

How could god always be there, you just shot yourself in the foot there.

Not really. Something had to always be there - it can't just completely appear of its own accord. So we have two options :

1 - In the beginning there was matter. Matter evolved and several million years later, intelligent life appeared.

OR

2 - In the beginning there was God. God made the Earth and all the creatures that inhabited it.

Either way, something had to come first.

 

[*Rob*]

I don't know if you know this, but in the Christian religion, God has always been, and always will be. It's a small thing called faith, which the scientific world denounces.

ok, in that case, matter has always existed, end of convo.

 

[Melethiel]

I'd like to point out that this subforum is under the umbrella of Christian Theology. Concepts in direct opposition to the Nicene Creed are not permitted here. The key points being
- The existence of God
- The temporal creation of the universe

 

[*Rob*]

Not really. Something had to always be there - it can't just completely appear of its own accord. So we have two options :

1 - In the beginning there was matter. Matter evolved and several million years later, intelligent life appeared.

OR

2 - In the beginning there was God. God made the Earth and all the creatures that inhabited it.

Either way, something had to come first.

You are making the assumption something had to start the universe, but this just your view

 

[MrSnow]

Well, this was mainly set up for those people who started debating evolution in a different thread.

Guess what?! We're in the right thread now!

So, enlighten me, all you people who were gangin' up on me, since we were talking about scientific theories, how does anything come about if matter cannot be created or destroyed?

Where did we come from if there was no matter to begin with, how long ago do you think it was? Like 250 quadrillion years, or some nonsense like that?

Evolution and Creation are not opposites. In fact, they are barely, IF AT ALL, related. Creation deals with the origins of things. All christians here will tell you that the universe was created by God "in the beginning". Evolution deals with the change in things that already exist.

So to answer the question, all matter was created by God. I don't see why you would ask christians where things came from. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." I don't know of any christians who believe that God did not have a hand in the origins of the universe.

Also, matter is created and destroyed all the time. There is no law of conservation of matter. However, there IS a law of conservation of energy. In fact, the destruction of matter is more or less what I do for a living (although not directly). The conversion of matter into energy is what E=MC^2 is all about.

250 quadrillion years is significantly more than 15 billion years, which is roughly the estimated age of the universe.

And in the christian community, "creationism vs evolution" is not a debate over whether or not there is a sovereign God. Rather, it is a debate over "creation of the entire universe in the form we see it today in a very short amount of time" vs "creation in an original form which undergoes change due to the laws that were created to govern it".

 

[GradualMetamorphosis]

You are making the assumption something had to start the universe, but this just your view

No, I'm just branching off the opinion that matter can not be created.

Also, Ernest...you might want to have this moved to another section since Non-Christians aren't exactly supposed to be posting here.

 

[GradualMetamorphosis]

You are making the assumption something had to start the universe, but this just your view

No, I'm just branching off the opinion that matter can not be created.

Also, Ernest...you might want to have this moved to another section since Non-Christians aren't exactly supposed to be posting here.

 

[GradualMetamorphosis]

Ernest, I suggest you PM Melethiel and ask her if she can move the thread here :

http://christianforums.com/f70-creation-evolution.html

 

[Theogonia]

So, enlighten me, all you people who were gangin' up on me, since we were talking about scientific theories, how does anything come about if matter cannot be created or destroyed?

Just because matter cannot be created nor destroyed does not mean it cannot exist in another form.

If a house blows up, the theory is that there is still the same amount of matter, it is merely in a different form.

 

[gluadys]

Well, this was mainly set up for those people who started debating evolution in a different thread.

Guess what?! We're in the right thread now!

I'm not sure you are. I don't know how this ended up in the theistic evolution sub-forum.

So, enlighten me, all you people who were gangin' up on me, since we were talking about scientific theories, how does anything come about if matter cannot be created or destroyed?

As noted, matter changes form. It can be converted to energy and converted back to matter. Also physicists tell us that at the quantum level matter pops into and out of existence all the time. Google "virtual particles".

So the old "law" that matter is neither created nor destroyed is out of date, rescinded by the evidence.

Like 250 quadrillion years, or some nonsense like that?

Age of the universe (originating in the big bang) 13.7 billion years.

Age of the solar system: about 4.5 billion years

Oldest evidence of life on earth: about 3.8 billion years

Oldest evidence of complex life on earth: about 700 million years

Oldest evidence of species in the genus Homo: about 2 million years

Oldest evidence of H. sapiens: about 170,000 years.

 

[pgp_protector]

FYI Your basic premise is wrong.
Matter can be created, it only takes energy

Just as matter can be converted into energy, Energy can be converted into matter.

Simple example of Matter -> Energy.
Burn 1oz of paper.(Trapping all smoke & ash)
Measure the ash & smoke the missing mass is what was converted to Heat & Light Energy.

 

[ernest_theweedwhackerguy]

Just because matter cannot be created nor destroyed does not mean it cannot exist in another form.

If a house blows up, the theory is that there is still the same amount of matter, it is merely in a different form.

Yes, a simpler form consisting of ash, rubble and debris. But, the fact that matter is still there proves my point.

And, seeing as how that matter could only come from one place, what's your take on abiogenesis?

Because that must be what you're supporting?