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I said nothing about age of the universe, but I think you'll find that most YECs don't agree with you on this point.Oncedeceived said:The Creation narrative doesn't say how old the universe is. Although, it does in later passages talk about time but possibilities exist that this is not a problem. YEC and the time line 13.7 billion years can co-exist.
No, the fossils are not found in any order consistent with literal Genesis.As far as the species, they are in order with the fossil record. Excluding trees which again has some possiblity in interpretations.
I almost forgot, the ORDER of species creation is not even consistent WITHIN Genesis.Oncedeceived said:As far as the species, they are in order with the fossil record. Excluding trees which again has some possiblity in interpretations.
Exactly.Ishmael Borg said:Ok. Your hypothesis is that Genesis is a narrative that implies order. Your next step, scientifically, should be to make predictions based on this hypothesis. What predictions do these narrative implications make? Do they agree with nature? If not, what does it mean?
Yes you did, you said:Ishmael Borg said:I said nothing about age of the universe, but I think you'll find that most YECs don't agree with you on this point.
I understand that. But nature, including the fossil record, provides evidence that points, inarguably, away from any creation-week scenario. Every species for which we have evidence, simply COULD NOT have existed within a YEC timeframe.
I disagree. Which are not? I have already excluded day three.No, the fossils are not found in any order consistent with literal Genesis.
?Please explain.Ishmael Borg said:I almost forgot, the ORDER of species creation is not even consistent WITHIN Genesis.
Well, let's see the tests. Show us how to test creationism. Show us the potential falsifications, that is certain evidence, if found, that would falsify creationism.Oncedeceived said:I have tested it. I do not blindly assert anything.
OK, first test. Using the order found in Genesis, which came first. Land mammals or whales? Now, is that order reflected in the actual fossil record?What I see in the natural world does not conflict with what the Bible says.
With the scientific tests that you are familiar with.Loudmouth said:Well, let's see the tests. Show us how to test creationism. Show us the potential falsifications, that is certain evidence, if found, that would falsify creationism.
It is consistant, but the way it works out is that each day is half the length of the day before it. So if day one is 2 billion years, then day two would be 1 billion years and day three would be 1/2 billion years and so forth.Ishmael Borg said:No, the fossils are not found in any order consistent with literal Genesis.
This is like pulling teeth. Please be specific.Oncedeceived said:With the scientific tests that you are familiar with.
Yes they are, from the NIV (Genesis 1):Whales are not mentioned in The Genesis order in the Creation week.
The same thing that puts the "bomp" in the Bomp-she-bomp-bomp...Vance said:In other words, what puts the "science" in Creation Science.
Loudmouth said:This is like pulling teeth. Please be specific.
To get the correct translation it is best not to use such a contemporary Bible. Look at the English translated Hebrew:Yes they are, from the NIV (Genesis 1):
"20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so."
So whales (great creatures of the sea) were created before land animals such as livestock (land mammals). Therefore, whales should appear before land mammals in the fossil record. This is not what we see. Instead, we see land mammals in the fossil record before whales. Therefore, there is a contradiction between the Genesis order and the fossil record. Your prediction has failed.
There are hundreds of thousands of fossils. Did you have a particular one in mind?Oncedeceived said:Fossil records, carbon dating.....normal everyday Scientific experimentation.
Oh, goody. You can recite Bible chapters. I thought you were talking about scientific tests.To get the correct translation it is best not to use such a contemporary Bible. Look at the English translated Hebrew:
<snipped>
No.Nathan Poe said:There are hundreds of thousands of fossils. Did you have a particular one in mind?
okayCarbon dating has little to do with the age of the Earth; its range is too small.
You asked me and I gave you a few. What are you looking for?"Normal everyday scientific experimentation..." Perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of "please be specific."
We were talking about whales actually.Oh, goody. You can recite Bible chapters. I thought you were talking about scientific tests.
see, whales before land animals, because it doesn't a second round of creation in the sea.Oncedeceived said:<biblical stuff>
The NIV likes to give examples of what the interpreters feel the words really mean.Sea monsters gave them a little unease I guess.
What?Jet Black said:see, whales before land animals, because it doesn't a second round of creation in the sea.
well according to the bible, all the stuff in the sea was created before the stuff on land, right? but the thing is, that whales, dolphins, porpoises and so on come after all the stuff on land (there are a few others, such as a species of waterborne sloth that is extinct, as well as manatees and things like that, but they aren'T as sophisticated as whales).... so it doesn't really fit that well. not to mention that grasses and so on came long after the animals.Oncedeceived said:What?
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