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It seems that they are operating from a worldview, a particular perspective.
Evolutionary scientists don't function on the premise that there are only natural means?
All the natural sciences exclude the supernatural from all the natural sciences. All of them. From chemistry to physics to geology, etc.
The hint is in the name. Natural. If the supernatural could be shown to have any influence on nature, then the supernatural will be included.
There is nothing to take up. They are perfectly clear about their stance on evidence that contradicts their a priori dogmatic religious beliefs.
You were challenging that that is what the statement meant. Clearly, your challenge is in vain. It's crystal clear that that is exactly what it means.
Spot on. That's why the evolutionists usually won't do live debates with creation scientists, because they are running scared (not that they would ever admit that; instead, they'll come up with some other excuse to turn down invitations to discuss the issues with their creation-believing counterparts).What it indicates to me Stanfordella, is that the apparent majority of these "theologians" can and are reading into the plain reading of Scripture in order to accommodate evolutionary science, in contradiction to exegetical practices of extracting meaning from the text. However, that is another thread. This thread is a celebration of creation scientists, and it appears that, that irritates a lot of people, based on the amount of negativity its getting.
Furthermore, it is NOT only my choice, but a number of creation scientists who have been of great blessing in helping me enjoy the glory of the Lord as plainly revealed in His Word. You just don't seem to like it.
By the way, what evidence are they "manipulating"? What are those instances where YECs are guilty of manipulating the evidence? Please share.
If you want to throw accusations around, we could simply come up some against evolution as well:
Haeckel's embryo fraud
Piltdown man fraud
Nebraska man from a pig's tooth
... to name only a few
https://evolutionisntscience.wordpress.com/evolution-frauds/
In fact, there are entire books devoted to the subject of poor, bad, weak, or even false science from evolutionary science:
The Darwinian Delusion: The Scientific Myth of Evolutionism (Michael Ebifegha)
EVOLUTION: A Grand Monument to Human Stupidity (Daniel Jappah)
Bones of Contention: A Creationist Assessment of Human Fossils (Marvin Lubenow)
Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth (Jonathan Wells)
... to name only a few
In fact, if you want to argue evolutionary theory, these authors and or websites might be people you could try and make your case with. But, based on my own observations from the Bible and from creation scientists, they are right on. So, there is no sense bashing me about it. They make very good points.
It wasn't the intent of the opening thread, but the reaction doesn't surprise me one bit. I just got fed up of being told that creation-believing scientists aren't real scientists, are a joke (and various other derogatory phrases), etc. What I find sad is when some other Christians manipulate the plain reading of the Bible in order to try to accommodate the naturalistic ideas that abound today. It just adds confusion in my view, e.g., when did sin come into the world if we are not descendants of a literal Adam and Eve for instance? One even said "We're just evolved animals anyway." Does that sound like "created in the image of God" to you? I don't look at an ape or a monkey and wonder how many past generations I would have to go back in my family before they resembled creatures like that. I don't walk on the lawn and think about my most distant relatives that I am trampling underfoot. I ain't got time for nonsensical ideas like multiverses or life allegedly starting on its own from non-living chemicals. The type of science that deals with origins (life or the universe) is speculative anyway, despite all the protestations to the contrary and I don't care if they try to say otherwise. They may think they have it all worked out, but they don't (95% of the universe being unknown doesn't sound like much knowledge to me and what is known could be totally wrong), so I'm going to trust God's word and if it disagrees with man's ideas and in the absence of any PROOF to the contrary, then that's tough. So be it.am not sure if this is the intent of the OP, but it is a fantastic thread that has brought in the angst of anti-creationists.
Can you provide a link so that I can check this out?Actually artificial life has been made.
It's just one example of the many problems with the so-called Big Bang. To me, the whole idea makes as much sense as a chocolate teapot. I think God must be smiling at all our futile efforts to explain His creation.We don't need to know where the singularity came from in order to know that the universe started expanding form a single point nearly 14 billion years ago.
Is anyone using evolution to do since either? Does it help build computers or cure diseases? I think not.What we have said time and again is that no one is using creationism to do science.
Where's your evidence for your dragon story? We have the Bible, the most studied and authenticated collection of ancient literature in the world by far. So give me an idea of how you would begin your story, have it develop a central theme over thousands of years, be written by many different writers on different continents (without the use of any modern technology I should add, while maintaining its accuracy from one copy to the next) as well as having the ability to prophesy events that would happen hundreds of years in the future? Your story would have to be so powerful that a whole new group of people would start to believe in it and would be prepared to die to defend it. It would have to be so powerful that even the way we record time would eventually be changed to recognise the merits of its central character. You say, "I win"; somehow I doubt it, but if you're up for it, give it a go. I haven't got many more years ahead of me, but I would expect to hear something about your story before I die.Ok. In that case, I'll just make up some idea about the undetectable, extra-dimensional 7-headed dragon that created life. Every argument "in support" of your creationism will be made to also support that dragon.
Yes. Evolution is science, and evolution is used constantly by scientists.Is anyone using evolution to do since either?
You may think not, but you're simply wrong. We use evolution all the time to understand biology and human disease. The research institute I work for exists for the sole purpose of applying science to human health, and we invest quite a lot into studying evolution at all scales, since it's the best way to understand lots of biology. If creationism really were scientific, it would provide the kinds of insights that evolution does. It isn't and it doesn't, so scientists have no reason to pay attention to it.Does it help build computers or cure diseases? I think not.
Can you provide a link so that I can check this out?
Where's your evidence for your dragon story? We have the Bible, the most studied and authenticated collection of ancient literature in the world by far. So give me an idea of how you would begin your story, have it develop a central theme over thousands of years, be written by many different writers on different continents (without the use of any modern technology I should add, while maintaining its accuracy from one copy to the next) as well as having the ability to prophesy events that would happen hundreds of years in the future? Your story would have to be so powerful that a whole new group of people would start to believe in it and would be prepared to die to defend it. It would have to be so powerful that even the way we record time would eventually be changed to recognise the merits of its central character. You say, "I win"; somehow I doubt it, but if you're up for it, give it a go. I haven't got many more years ahead of me, but I would expect to hear something about your story before I die.
Derek Meyer, thank your for clearing that up. . . Let's start with origins if you want to exclude supernatural means from purely natural processes, then we could go to chemicals to life, then we could progress to vast amounts of information and the accompanying language within DNA. . . there seems to be a few miracles in the notion of evolution.
You mean, how life can't form (without supernatural input that it). That would be the sensible conclusion from what they ahve discovered thus far.Abiogenesis studies how life can form.
Yes it does, if God created life then He's in control of everything in the universe, including but not limited to life on this planet. Evolution would mean that God used a cruel and wasteful way to develop mankind that is supposed to be created "in the image of God." I don't accept that and many (not the majority admittedly) totally reject that idea as well. There are millions of people in the world who also reject such a notion.Evolution is about the processes existing life is subject to. In context of studying existing life, it matters not how that life originated.
But you can't come up with a rational explanation of how it all came about, so you've only got part of the story. If you've only got part of the story, then you don't know anything for certain.Life exists and we can study it and identify the laws and processes that it is subject to.
Is anyone using evolution to do since either? Does it help build computers or cure diseases? I think not.
It's just one example of the many problems with the so-called Big Bang.
To me, the whole idea makes as much sense as a chocolate teapot. I think God must be smiling at all our futile efforts to explain His creation.
I, on the other hand, reject the idea that we're in a position to tell God how he should have gone about creating.Yes it does, if God created life then He's in control of everything in the universe, including but not limited to life on this planet. Evolution would mean that God used a cruel and wasteful way to develop mankind that is supposed to be created "in the image of God." I don't accept that and many (not the majority admittedly) totally reject that idea as well.
Everyone has only part of the story, and no one knows anything for certain. You can't change that by announcing that something has to be true by fiat, or by "totally rejecting" ideas.But you can't come up with a rational explanation of how it all came about, so you've only got part of the story. If you've only got part of the story, then you don't know anything for certain.
You mean, how life can't form (without supernatural input that it). That would be the sensible conclusion from what they ahve discovered thus far.
Yes they are. The book of Genesis is the most quoted book in the whole New Testament. The Creator of the universe when here in human form never once put any doubt on what we are told in Genesis. I would suggest ready the excellent book "The Stranger on the Road to Emmaus" if you have any doubt about that or about the importance of the Genesis account to the overall theme of the Bible.Just as the later books of the Bible are not really dependent upon Genesis or Exodus
I'm not sure how I got sucked into this one, but if there is a question or comment about their stand, it is much better to take it up with them. I commented to a comment about it and it has digressed to this. . .
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