creation of the world

[artybloke]

well if you beleive that the bible is THE word of God then yes, its a 6 day creation, and the 7th day was when God rested. If you start saying that is just an inspired book then you can start to nit-pic...which is very dangeriouse...so yes, its a 1 week creation

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Young Earth Creationism is a pack of lies and misinformation from start to finish, and nobody investigating Christianity seriously should be decieved that it is believed anymore by more than a small [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of mostly American fundamentalists.

There is no evidence in God's universe that God created in 6 days: all the evidence that God left in his universe shows that the earth is very old and that life evolved from very simple beginnings. Creationism is a disproved hypothesis.

And the Bible isn't The Word of God. That title properly and exclusively belongs to Christ. Calling the bible The Word of God equates it to the Trinity and commits the sin of bibliolatry.

 

[Q-La]

I think fellow christians should not lose their faith if even it can be scientifically proven that the earth did take longer than days to create. Personally I don't even have a problem with evolution, coz I think we should try to limit God's way of creating man. If man comes from big bang and evolution God still has created me and saved my life; After all science is a gift that God put into our hands, a tool we are given to understand and manage His creation. We just need more faith to believe in Him to understand the combatibility issues.

 

[Faith In God]

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Young Earth Creationism is a pack of lies and misinformation from start to finish, and nobody investigating Christianity seriously should be decieved that it is believed anymore by more than a small [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of mostly American fundamentalists.

There is no evidence in God's universe that God created in 6 days: all the evidence that God left in his universe shows that the earth is very old and that life evolved from very simple beginnings. Creationism is a disproved hypothesis.

And the Bible isn't The Word of God. That title properly and exclusively belongs to Christ. Calling the bible The Word of God equates it to the Trinity and commits the sin of bibliolatry.

I've said this before.

When God created Adam, He created Adam as a full-grown man and Eve the same. Even though Adam was minutes old, he was a man. and all the animals and trees were the same. they were created bearing fruit.

Literal six days makes perfect sense if you first get the big bang out of your head.

second, assume that God creates things ready for the purpose it was made (ie Adam)

now, if God created Adam as a man, not a child, then He also created the earth as being physically five million years old, the sun at 5 billion i think the number is, and some galaxies lightyears away as already gone, but the light still reaches the earth since it was physically created that way.

so I don't say that the scientists are wrong when they say that the sun and the earth are really old, because physically they are, but in reality they are not as old as they are physically.

Literal interpretation of the bible is the only sensical way. first say that God's word is true, and then fit the facts to it. If the bible is not literal, then the literalism can never end, when we know that there are factual accounts in there.

 

[Underdog77]

Sometimes I think christians are taking the bible too literally in the scientifc aspects. IMO many times the situations are symbolic rather than scientifically accurate, divinely inspired and written for our souls but maybe not technological progresses. So I am not taking the numbers too seriously. I hope more than 144000 will be saved in the end. We should understand the symbolic tradition of numbers of the Jews and early christians(3, 7, 12, 10, 22..).

But most of the Bible is quite literal, espcially Genesis. The language (in both English and original Hebrew) tells us quite clearly with its context that yom (the hebrew word for day as used in the creation account) means a literal 24 hour day. The Bible clearly depicts a literal 6 day creation.

Also, numbers ought to be taken literally, at least those that I know of.
The Bible does not say only 144000 will be saved in the end times, but instead says at least that many are chosen and not one less will come to Christ in that time.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

But most of the Bible is quite literal, espcially Genesis. The language (in both English and original Hebrew) tells us quite clearly with its context that yom (the hebrew word for day as used in the creation account) means a literal 24 hour day. The Bible clearly depicts a literal 6 day creation.

Also, numbers ought to be taken literally, at least those that I know of.
The Bible does not say only 144000 will be saved in the end times, but instead says at least that many are chosen and not one less will come to Christ in that time.

The elders of the Orthodox Church would say otherwise. For instance references to 1000 years in Revelations is not taken as a literal number.

From the Orthodox point of view...

Forgive me..

 

[Underdog77]

Did Jesus not talk using parables and was Jesus not an incarnation of God? As such, do you not believe that God talked using parables to illustrate certain points when inspiring the Bible and possibly didn't mean for every word of the Bible to be taken literally?

First of all yes, Jesus did use parables and I do believe in His divinity and that He is the Son of God. But did Jesus not also die on the cross, rise on the third day, and ascend into Heaven? These things happened literally as did much of the other things in the Bible. Although it may sometimes be hard to distinguish between symbolic and literal passages, there are ways to do it. Be open minded in parables, poetry, and prophecy. There are other Scriptures where you can come to the conclusion that they are symbolic metaphors but not in early Genesis. The creation account is written in such a way in its original language that it takes GREAT twisting of the words to interpret it any other way. The word "day" in the creation account is most easily and best translated as meaning a literal 24 day.

And secondly, many people somehow come to the conclusion that because YEC's (young earth creationists) believe that the creation account is literal that YEC's also believe that every single passage in the Bible is literal too.

While I (and many others) believe that much if not most of the Bible is literal, never have we said that the whole thing is literal. We would and often are portrayed as lunatics. There are passages of prophecy, poetry, etc... that contain symbolic meaning. There are some scriptures that are metaphoric and contain deeper meaning. But not all, not everything. Much of the Scripture is literal and the creation account is part of it.

 

[Underdog77]

The elders of the Orthodox Church would say otherwise. For instance references to 1000 years in Revelations is not taken as a literal number.

From the Orthodox point of view...

Forgive me..

Are you talking about Greek Orthodox?

If so I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgable about other religions/beliefs. I will say that I believe the Bible especially when it makes specific references such as numbers. If the wise men did not believe the numbers were literal then they probably would have shown up too late or too early.

There are many number references in the Bible and most of them are very important. We need to be able to believe the Bible at take it at its word.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hey Underdog77,
Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox etc. its all the same Church..
Orthodox is Orthodox..
The Orthodox Church does not rely on scripture alone... this is because they have so much more to work with. "Holy Tradition" (that which has been "handed" down) provides expainations for such things...especially the hard questions...

God loves us all....

From the Orthodox view...
Forgive me...

 

[Underdog77]

Sorry, but this is nonsense. Young Earth Creationism is a pack of lies and misinformation from start to finish, and nobody investigating Christianity seriously should be decieved that it is believed anymore by more than a small [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] of mostly American fundamentalists.

Ouch, those are some strong words there, I would venture to say that most of them were said out of blind, ignorant stubborness. YEC's are not trying to decieve anyone but are trying to show through logical deductions, scientific data, and the Bible that the earth is young. Without millions of years, evolution (an anti-God religion) becomes impossible and this is the goal of YEC's. And I have already shown in many threads how the Bible clearly depicts a literal 6 day creation.

There is no evidence in God's universe that God created in 6 days: all the evidence that God left in his universe shows that the earth is very old and that life evolved from very simple beginnings. Creationism is a disproved hypothesis.

These are just empty words. While I will not post any scientific data here in this thread, I assure you that within a month or so a thread will pop up in both the Christian and mixed areas on the data showing how the earth is not old. I have been working on this for about a month now and will soon have it ready.

And the Bible isn't The Word of God. That title properly and exclusively belongs to Christ. Calling the bible The Word of God equates it to the Trinity and commits the sin of bibliolatry.

What is the Bible then? It claims to be directly from God's own mouth. 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scipture is inspired by God..." The word inspired in its original Greek language means God breathed or from God's lips.

So the Bible claims to be the Word of God and it hasn't been wrong yet (historical accounts, prophecy, etc...) so this makes me want to believe it.

But what do you think it is? Is it just a bunch of books that talks about God? Where do you get your beliefs from?

Also, calling the Bible the word of God is not idolatry. We do raise the Bible up to a position a deity but rather we call it what believe it to be: the word of God. Jesus, on the other hand, was the living word of God.

 

[Underdog77]

Hey Underdog77,
Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox etc. its all the same Church..
Orthodox is Orthodox..
The Orthodox Church does not rely on scripture alone... this is because they have so much more to work with. "Holy Tradition" (that which has been "handed" down) provides expainations for such things...especially the hard questions...

Like I said, I don't really know much about other beliefs. But I do know that whatever I believe comes from the Bible. It is the only special revelation that I know of and I put complete trust in it. What's the Holy Tradition? What does it say.

God loves us all....

From the Orthodox view...
Forgive me...

God does love us all but what should I forgive you for?

 

[El Guapo]

After knowing what the Bible says, alot of things can be explained but just beware, don't look at the world to help you interpret the Bible, that's how we get theistic evolutionists and old earth creationists.

[Insert "booo, hisss!" sound here.]

 

[El Guapo]

Call me old fashioned, but I personally believe in all that science and cosmology nonsense. Coincidently I also consider myself Christian. (How does he do it ladies and gentlemen?!)

The doh smiley (or in this case the "I'm totally blown away" smiley) definitely doesn't get enough air time...

 

[Underdog77]

[Insert "booo, hisss!" sound here.]

Amazing

 

[Underdog77]

Call me old fashioned, but I personally believe in all that science and cosmology nonsense. Coincidently I also consider myself Christian. (How does he do it ladies and gentlemen?!)

The doh smiley (or in this case the "I'm totally blown away" smiley) definitely doesn't get enough air time...

No kidding. I want to use the doh smiley almost every time in my replies but after awhile it gets boring.

 

[Enigma'07]

but is the traditionally Sabbath a Saturday or Sunday

I believe that yes, technically saterday is the Sabbath, and Jews still see it as that.

do you think creation was done in 7 of our days we have now, or hundreds of days ?

6 days and He rested on the 7th. 24 hour days, all of them.

 

[El Guapo]

No kidding. I want to use the doh smiley almost every time in my replies but after awhile it gets boring.

True, there's nothing worse than an over used smiley. Except for maybe the kiss blowing smiley. That one's just weird.

 

[Sinai]

Literal interpretation of the bible is the only sensical way. first say that God's word is true, and then fit the facts to it. If the bible is not literal, then the literalism can never end, when we know that there are factual accounts in there.

But a "literal interpretation" of the Bible can support either the young Earth creationists who claim the universe is a few thousand years old OR the old Earth creationists who claim the universe is billions of years old.

 

[Faith In God]

But a "literal interpretation" of the Bible can support either the young Earth creationists who claim the universe is a few thousand years old OR the old Earth creationists who claim the universe is billions of years old.

literal says that God created in six days. days. literal. the universe may very well be physically billions of years old, and yet be truly only several thousand (take for instance Adam was created a physically full-grown man even though he was really only a few minutes old.)

 

[GodSaves]

If you read about the 144,000(Rev. 7) it is not saying this is the only amount of people who will be saved and will be in heaven. You will read in Revelations(Rev. 7:9) about a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. I believe that the 144,000 will be all that is left of believers on earth at the time of the tribulation (between the 6 seal and the 7 seal).

If the Bible is not the Word of God, then what is it? Just a book?

2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God-breathed..."

Paul talks of the last days and how they will be Godless. Let me share some key verses that can pertain to this discussion:

2 Timothy 3:5 "having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."

2 Timothy 3:7 "always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth."

2 Timothy 2:14 "Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen."

2 Timothy 2:17-18 "Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some."

1 Timothy 1:3-4 "As I urge you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work - which is by faith."

God Bless

 

[CookanGarden]

7 days