Creation from a different angle?

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

'....Christians only believe the ideas other people have had.'

Well that's not entirely true. We (though some can be a little stubborn) are the original sky pilots, the ones who decided to walk out of step with the world.
From your very first post here, you have gone from dissing creationists (though you were not even aware there were different kinds) to suddenly being an expert on what Christians are. Take a step back, get in the flow and don't be afraid of us.

So, have you read or studied any of John Walton's books?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

For our readers:

Before I respond to Nadia, I thought these two very meaty lectures from the ASA (not to be confused with NASA) website, might interest y'all:

1. TWO CREATIONIST INTERPRETATIONS OF GENESIS 1 — LOGICAL & CHRONOLOGICAL and
2. CONCORDISM OR ACCOMMODATION IN GENESIS — ANCIENT NEAR-EASTERN COSMOLOGY?

The story of Christianity is taken from the many religions that went before it.

That's a Zeitgeist theory. GOOGLE any rebuttal by Professor Ben Witherington.

As we are discussing Genesis 1:1-2, could you please try to stay on topic, or post elsewhere.

I question anyone that believes something without having a good enough reason to believe it.

Agreed. Off-topic.

I would be a fool if I was not at least a little bit afraid of irrational people, are you afraid of Muslims?

One might say that about the ocean too, but in the light of current world events and the ongoing negativity about Muslims -- I agree with President Obama's call for tolerance. And, no I am not afraid of Muslims. Fear is not healthy, however caution when engaging lions, sharks, wolves and serpents is wise.
In society as a whole, evil people are present in all walks of life.
I follow Jesus, who was a pacifist.

Why would I want to do that?

Read back. I have presented enough good reason, plus it is on-topic.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Readers,
I meant to link to ASA (above) , but forgot, so here's a useful one:

The American Scientific Affiliation: Creation-Views and Actions on Evolution, Design, and Age

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

The ASA is made up of religious people trying to sound as if they know something about science and failing miserably.
They know they are not fooling anyone other than believers who are the only people they can fool, you are being fooled.

Your opinion. I suppose you base your statement on first hand knowledge (and an appearance of authority) rather than your usual shut-minded approach to anything which has to do with anyone who is religious.

This thread has a specific topic. Care to guess what it is?

Perhaps before you aim your hot militant atheistic canons and fire off another salvo, you might consider reading the linked article:

'....CREATIONISM

Are we creationists? The ASA's 1991 resolution for teaching "Evolution as Science" recommends a "candid discussion of unsolved problems and open questions." Does this willingness to ask questions mean we are creationists? The answer is "yes, no, and maybe" because it depends on how creationism is defined. ....'

 

[SkyWriting]

People who want to believe something will overlook everything against it in order to believe it.

People who want to believe something will overlook everything against it in order to believe it.

People who want to believe something will overlook everything against it in order to believe it.

People who want to believe something will overlook everything against it in order to believe it.

And will repeat the false statements over and over to convince themselves.

 

[SkyWriting]

The story of Christianity is taken from the many religions that went before it.

Or the story is correct and earlier incarnations of the truth preceded
the current Bible.

 

[SkyWriting]

Christians only believe the ideas other people have had.

I don't fault others for knowing the truth before I discovered it.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Or the story is correct and earlier incarnations of the truth preceded
the current Bible.

That's a very scholarly-romantic approach and a very effective one, which worked well in convincing C.S. Lewis. Kudos go to JRR Tolkien and esp. Hugo Dyson. PTL!

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

I don't fault others for knowing the truth before I discovered it.

What does become problematic is when such a thing is blindly believed as being true. ie: The Jehovah's witnesses idea about the Pagan origin of the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yep. This should be moved to a theology forum so everyone can oh and ahh at the sophisticated concepts. Creationism, no matter from what angle you view it from, is just plain wrong.

Can you tell us which natural properties of matter lead to life?

 

[SkyWriting]

What does become problematic is when such a thing is blindly believed as being true. ie: The Jehovah's witnesses idea about the Pagan origin of the doctrine of the Trinity.

They are correct. The trinity concept is not found in scripture.
The components of it are, but there is no evidence that any early
church taught a "trinity" concept of a god with three personalities.

 

[SkyWriting]

That's a very scholarly-romantic approach and a very effective one, which worked well in convincing C.S. Lewis. Kudos go to JRR Tolkien and esp. Hugo Dyson. PTL!

If one accepts that the scriptures are true, then I accept that Adam wrote events as they happened to him.

If Adam chronicled the creation of the world, then I wouldn't be surprised if alternate versions of his writings passed word-of-mouth through the world over the span of time since then.

If our Bible is true, then other religions may well have similar stories spun off the beaten trail.

 

[SkyWriting]

I would be a fool if I was not at least a little bit afraid of irrational people...

We don't fear you that much.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

They are correct. The trinity concept is not found in scripture.
The components of it are, but there is no evidence that any early
church taught a "trinity" concept of a god with three personalities.

It has gone on to be a very robust doctrine of the church, one I find no reason not to uphold. In fact, and more directly on the topic, those components are found in the first three verses of Genesis 1.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

If one accepts that the scriptures are true, then I accept that Adam wrote events as they happened to him.

If Adam chronicled the creation of the world, then I wouldn't be surprised if alternate versions of his writings passed word-of-mouth through the world over the span of time since then.

If our Bible is true, then other religions may well have similar stories spun off the beaten trail.

Writings? Do you seriously think Adam (if he even existed) could write? It is probably more likely that these were first orally transmitted, after which only once we (humanoids) learned to write, that such a thing was attended to. Meticulously, I may point out.

 

[Davian]

Writings? Do you seriously think Adam (if he even existed) could write? It is probably more likely that these were first orally transmitted, after which only once we (humanoids) learned to write, that such a thing was attended to. Meticulously, I may point out.

Fantastic stories handed down orally from people that may not have existed, copied by hand, translated across various languages, from originals lost to time, and you would like to point out that it was done "meticulously". How would we know this?

I wonder when AV1611VET will pop in to inform us that Adam, Eve and Noah all spoke English.

 

[Doveaman]

People who want to believe something will overlook everything against it in order to believe it.

Yes, scientists are very good at doing that and then convincing people like you to do the same.

I'm still waiting to see some of that dark-matter and dark-energy scientists keep talking about.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Fantastic stories handed down orally from people that may not have existed, copied by hand, translated across various languages, from originals lost to time, and you would like to point out that it was done "meticulously". How would we know this?

Very pretty poem, D.

They're not nearly as fantastic as the Greek myths.

How do I know that this was done meticulously? My rabbi told me.

There is quite a good breakdown of this in the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Old Testament


The Hebrew Massoretic text, is the clue. Enjoy learning nee stuff.

I wonder when AV1611VET will pop in to inform us that Adam, Eve and Noah all spoke English.

Don't tempt the Dragon.
Actually, I was thinking the same thing about you.
English had not yet evolved.

My rabbi said something equally puzzling, that God gave the first alphabet.

Have you ever studied Hebrew? Or, language origins?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Yes, scientists are very good at doing that and then convincing people like you to do the same.

Everybody's got dark matter and dark energy! It seems there was some of it too, in Genesis 1 verse two, and Spirit of God hovered over it, just like He does with me and you.

 

[florida2]

Yes, scientists are very good at doing that and then convincing people like you to do the same.

I'm still waiting to see some of that dark-matter and dark-energy scientists keep talking about.

So are the scientists - that's why there's research and experimentation going on.