Creating an ideal world - supporting the sick, poor, and elderly

[Norm d'Plume]

Hi. This is one in a group of questions I have related to a sci-fi book I'm writing that includes an ideal conservative Christian world called New Bethlehem. For more information about the book, please see my original thread here:http://www.christianforums.com/threads/creating-an-ideal-world-for-conservative-christians.7890296/

In my current draft, New Bethlehem expects people to be self-reliant, not expecting a handout from government. How far should I take that? What is the best way to support the sick, the poor, and the eldery without making them dependent upon government? Or is such dependence inevitable?

I've currently written it so that those in need live in "havens" created around churches that provide support through charitable contributions. In this case, the churches struggle because there are always people in need.

Should there be universal health care funded through taxes?
Medicare and old-age pensions from the government?
Mandatory unemployment insurance contributions?
Universal daycare with the expectation that able-bodied adults work?
Would there be welfare? What of those who are able-bodied but can't find work?

Should entitlement programs be privatized, leaving it up to each individual as to whether or not they contribute to such programs, so they have them available in difficult times?

I should add that there is no separation of church and state on New Bethlehem. It is solely a Christian-based government, so the lines are a bit blurred.

Thank you.
Norm

 

[Resha Caner]

I should add that there is no separation of church and state on New Bethlehem. It is solely a Christian-based government, so the lines are a bit blurred.

What is a "Christian government"? I don't remember seeing the Book of Constitution in the Bible.

 

[Resha Caner]

What is a "Christian government"? I don't remember seeing the Book of Constitution in the Bible.

I should add that you're betraying an attitude that church and state are actually separate. If they aren't separate in your story as you say, then why is the "state" delegating care for the sick and poor to the "church"?

 

[Norm d'Plume]

I don't mean to suggest that the government and church will be or should be separate. I simply put it in terms that we can all understand based on how things are in our society today. As I noted, the lines will blur as I try to define what a Christain goverment will look like, and I do intend to make it one. Some things are easy. Prayer in schools. Creationism. A closer following of the Bible when dealing with law and punishment.

Defense will be a major factor on New Bethlehem because of serious external threats from conquest. Indeed, the need for a massive military will be so great that entitlement programs will probably be minimal, as was generally the case before the New Deal and WWII. I haven't fully decided on that yet, but I lean heavily in favor of the church and charity to support those in need, as was traditionally the case.

If there were no such external threat requiring a large military, should a conservative Christian society provide government-funded entitlement programs such as those we have today? It's a redistribution of wealth, which Republicans rail against. But what about conservative Christians? Should it be left to individuals to give to charity what they deem is appropriate, or should the government step in and tax individuals what it deems is necessary for government-run entitlement programs?

Thanks.
Norm

 

[Resha Caner]

I don't mean to suggest that the government and church will be or should be separate.

My point is that you're betraying that very odd mix of Americanism and Moody Christianity. Are you sure it's Biblical?

Some things are easy. Prayer in schools. Creationism. A closer following of the Bible when dealing with law and punishment.

Actually, they're not easy. What is the purpose of school, and why must prayer be a part of that purpose? Is forced prayer a Christian ideal?

Where does the Bible endorse "creationism"? The Bible declares God to be the creator of all things, but that is completely different from the modern, man-made philosophy of creationism.

In terms of law and punishment, everyone always seems to forget Deuteronomy 16:18. Lutheran theology (I am a Lutheran) proposes what is called the "two kingdoms" solution to government, which is neither American separation of church and state nor a "Christian state" (which I don't think is possible - just as I don't like the idea of "Christian literature").

If there were no such external threat requiring a large military, should a conservative Christian society provide government-funded entitlement programs such as those we have today? It's a redistribution of wealth, which Republicans rail against. But what about conservative Christians? Should it be left to individuals to give to charity what they deem is appropriate, or should the government step in and tax individuals what it deems is necessary for government-run entitlement programs?

Exactly. When did God ever agree to be dragged into state politics? "Redistribution of wealth" is a socialist idea, not a Biblical idea, etc. God has no interest in defending the U.S., modern Israel (or much of ancient Israel for that matter), or New Bethlehem. That is not His purpose.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Prayer in shool and especially Bible study in school reinforce Christian values, which is why separate, private schools are still so prevalent. The Catholic church alone teaches 2.2 million students in the U.S. The argument in favor of religion in school comes primarily from Christian conservatives.

According to a survey published by the Huffington Post (not exactly a conservative news outlet), forty six percent Americans believed in creationism, 32 percent believed in theistic evolution, and 15 percent believed in evolution without any divine intervention. The number of people who believe in creationism has actually gone up by 2%.

Also, the Bible very much advocates redistribution of wealth:

Acts 2:44-45 - All that believed were together, and had all things in common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Matthew 19:21 - Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Given that, I believe it's perfectly reasonable for me to ask Christian conservatives if they believe in the redistribution of wealth. If that's a conservative ideal, then it belongs in my book.

And I'm not asking what God wants, as far as protecting Israel, the U.S., or New Bethlehem. I'm asking what conservative Christians want for their ideal world. (And I'm pretty sure most Israelies would say God wants them to protect themselves and their homeland from annihilation.)

Thanks again.
Norm

 

[Resha Caner]

Prayer in shool and especially Bible study in school reinforce Christian values ...

I would say prayer is about living out our relationship with God: worship, confession, and supplication. I don't like it when people pretend to pray, but all they're really doing is delivering a sermon to others. But what exactly is a "Christian value"?

Regardless, you didn't answer my question. Would this society of yours force children to pray in school? And what prayers would they do? Maybe an Ave Maria?

... forty six percent Americans believed in creationism ...

So what. That doesn't make it Biblical. I'm trying to get you to see that creationism is more than just believing God is creator. It claims scientific proof that creation occurred in a specific way. I believe in creation (and not evolution), but I don't accept creationism.

Also, the Bible very much advocates redistribution of wealth

It does not. Redistribution of wealth means the government forces it. Government takes money from one group and gives it to another. What the Bible is in favor of is charity.

And I'm not asking what God wants, as far as protecting Israel, the U.S., or New Bethlehem. I'm asking what conservative Christians want for their ideal world.

Wow. So what God wants isn't important to conservative Christians?

And I'm pretty sure most Israelies would say God wants them to protect themselves and their homeland from annihilation.

I'm sure those Israelis who believe in God would say that. As would Muslims and Hindus about their respective nations. So what. Nations are man-made. Maybe I've misunderstood what kind of society you're creating for your book. Are you intentionally creating a false society based on human desires - by people pretending to believe - by people appropriating God's name to their own ends?