Creating a Humanzee

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Google Search

That's even worse!

If you have a point to make, pretend that you're a teacher. Educate people. Provide the source for us to read so we can make up our own minds on the matter, because for every source you provide, we can probably find another that says the opposite.

What you're doing is just rude.

 

[Ophiolite]

That wasn't a citation. That was a copy and paste job which none of us know where you got it from. You could have made it up wholesale. If you don't know how to provide a citation, or just look at the example Ophilate gave.

And also, the way you did it goes against the forum's statement of purpose, which reads:
"Remember to quote sources if applicable. When copying a portion of an article or informational piece, remember the copyright limits outlined by CF as well as the copyright stipulations of the article publisher."
Even what I did, copying and pasting the comment and providing the link to the source counts as a citation.

Thank you Warden for attempting to explain to @QvQ why what they think of as a citation is very far from a citation. I did my best by providing an example, as you mentioned. I find this sort of exchange upsetting as often I wind up with a warning and nothing seems to happen to the other member. Forum participation is meant to be relaxing and informative. Some of it is, but this kind of aggressive behaviour is quite the reverse. Time to step away for a while. Thank you again for your efforts.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Thank you Warden for attempting to explain to @QvQ why what they think of as a citation is very far from a citation. I did my best by providing an example, as you mentioned. I find this sort of exchange upsetting as often I wind up with a warning and nothing seems to happen to the other member. Forum participation is meant to be relaxing and informative. Some of it is, but this kind of aggressive behaviour is quite the reverse. Time to step away for a while. Thank you again for your efforts.

I'd call it passive aggressive over aggressive, but it's either way it's rude for sure.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Scientifically speaking, creating a humanzee would be no different from how we've created Ligers and Mules. So why haven't we created a humanzee yet, knowing it's entirely possible and super easy?

Many say it's an issue of morality. But why would it be, considering a humanzee would be neither human, nor chimp. What would be a worst or best case scenario in this situation? Being the eternal optimist that I am, I envision a friendly pet-like companion, like a dog, but much smarter. It's not like it would be in a constant state of pain, like some kind of groaning Frankenstein - nature doesn’t allow animals to live in perpetual pain. Perhaps they could even be trained to do our work for us? Like picking fruit in the fields? Or factory work, or other jobs humans don't particularly like doing? For thousands of years we've been using horses in similar ways - I don't see how a humanzee would be any different.

What if it didn’t have an animal mentality but instead a human mentality? It would be an outcast of society, basically an intentionally genetically deformed human being. I don’t think it would be morally correct to put someone thru that kind of potentially painful experience. It might say why did you do this to me?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What if it didn’t have an animal mentality but instead a human mentality? It would be an outcast of society, basically an intentionally genetically deformed human being.

That would raise an absolutely horrible ethical and moral implication even worse than just creating the damn thing itself.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Lol! I think he knows what I meant. I'm not going to spell it out.

Hmm. I mean, I don't think he did, which is probably why he asked. I certainly don't. What word were you trying to obfuscate? Can you give us a hint?

 

[QvQ]

If you have a point to make, pretend that you're a teacher.

A good teacher states a proposition and teaches a student the tools to teach himself.
A good student researches the proposition independently and arrives at conclusions

The Fact I presented is well documented as being "true" based on the overwhelming amount of information presented on that google search.

There is research into the Why plants and animal hybrids don't stabilize.
And much investigation into How to stabilize those hybrids.
That research is also available to anyone interested in the subject.

I will not do the "You are" game. It is flaming.
I am simply presenting propositions for consideration.
Those propositions can be considered without any reference to "you" at all.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

A good teacher states a proposition and teaches a student the tools to teach himself.
A good student researches the proposition independently and arrives at conclusions

And a better teacher will also provide names of the subject matter and sources for students to read and to start their education with.

The Fact I presented is well documented as being "true" based on the overwhelming amount of information presented on that google search.

'True' is a subjective, if not THE most subjective word in the world and is virtually worthless in science.

There is research into the Why plants and animal hybrids don't stabilize.
And much investigation into How to stabilize those hybrids.
That research is also available to anyone willing to do the research into the subject.

And it would be polite and proper of you to provide citations, even just the name of a paper or web article, to show this. To just copy and paste something with no source attached is rude and is against forum rules.

I will not do the "You are" game. It is flaming.
I am simply presenting propositions for consideration.

You have a very weird idea on what constitutes as flaming.
And when you're pushed on these propositions, you become passive aggressive and rude.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That would raise an absolutely horrible ethical and moral implication even worse than just creating the damn thing itself.

Yes I absolutely agree, that was my point. I actually edited my post after you replied to it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hmm. I mean, I don't think he did, which is probably why he asked. I certainly don't. What word were you trying to obfuscate? Can you give us a hint?

It's a word associated with Oppenheimer.

The point being: sometimes in science, we don't always know when to stop short of making unwise research decisions.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yes I absolutely agree, that was my point. I actually edited my post after you replied to it.

Noted.

 

[QvQ]

And it would be polite and proper of you to provide citations, even just the name of a paper or web article, to show this. To just copy and paste something with no source attached is rude and is against forum rules.

Google Search

Take your pick of the articles on that page.
Not one article states that Hybrids come true from seed.
Your sole argument seems to be that "you are such and such"
Nothing to do with facts that were presented.

Again this is off topic.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Google Search

That's still being rude! Even if you are giving multiple sources, just throwing out a whole Google search is still just rude.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That would raise an absolutely horrible ethical and moral implication even worse than just creating the damn thing itself.

Yeah what do you do with it if it has a human mentality? You can’t keep it in a cage it’s a human being. Now you have to release it into society which is going to be a hard life to cope with.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yeah what do you do with it if it has a human mentality? You can’t keep it in a cage it’s a human being. Now you have to release it into society which is going to be a hard life to cope with.

Horrible idea to contemplate, but I would just make sure it's goes as painlessly as possible, then dispose of the body and all research attached to it.

 

[LizaMarie]

What if it didn’t have an animal mentality but instead a human mentality? It would be an outcast of society, basically an intentionally genetically deformed human being. I don’t think it would be morally correct to put someone thru that kind of potentially painful experience. It might say why did you do this to me?

This. It would be an assault on human dignity and unfair to the creature created. It is experimentation just like in Nazi Germany and just because we “can” do something doesn’t mean we should. If it’s about curing disease or whatever there are more ethical ways to do that. I want to make clear I’m not claiming that anyone here is promoting Nazi experimentation I’m simply saying that all human beings deserve to be born into a loving family and to exist for their own sake, and not as part of an experiment and this includes human cloning

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

In checking on naturally or semi-naturally occurring hybrids, I came across the edible frog, aka the European dark-spotted frog aka Pelophylax klepton esculentus. A naturally occurring hybrid between thepool frog (Pelophylax lessonae) and the marsh frog (Pelophylax ridibundus), and above all, it is a fertile hybrid. Though it is a weird one, since it reproduces asexually or by hybridogenesis, wherein it will mate with one of the parent species, either the pool or marsh frog.
But, above all, it's a fertile hybrid, so they do exist.

Life finds a way...

 

[BNR32FAN]

Horrible idea to contemplate, but I would just make sure it's goes as painlessly as possible, then dispose of the body and all research attached to it.

I’d say it’s better to avoid the idea all together and not even mess with it.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I’d say it’s better to avoid the idea all together and not even mess with it.

That too. Mine was plan B as it were.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Lol! I think he knows what I meant. I'm not going to spell it out.

I have no idea what you meant. That's why I expressed confusion.