Craven Images - What does this mean?

[SharonL]

What does this verse mean to you?

Deuteronomy 5:8 (New International Version)



8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

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I heard a pastor which I have a lot of faith in preach in his sermon the other night that said we should not have a statue of even Jesus - because there was no saving grace in that statue and that God tells us not to have any craven images.

 

[foadle]

I believe it is anything that we give position or priority over God. This then could be the actual physical idols of the old testament but it also includes money, relationships, possessions, activities etc. God must be number one in our lives.

 

[Macca]

What does this verse mean to you?

Deuteronomy 5:8 (New International Version)



8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

======================

I heard a pastor which I have a lot of faith in preach in his sermon the other night that said we should not have a statue of even Jesus - because there was no saving grace in that statue and that God tells us not to have any craven images.

It is actually Graven images; it relates to images of things that men were inclined to bow down to in worship.

 

[Tenebrae]

I think it refers to anything that gets a higher place in our lives than God. It could be a statue, it could be money, but if it gets a higher place in our lives than God, its bad

 

[Bobber]

What does this verse mean to you?

Deuteronomy 5:8 (New International Version)



8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

======================

I heard a pastor which I have a lot of faith in preach in his sermon the other night that said we should not have a statue of even Jesus - because there was no saving grace in that statue and that God tells us not to have any craven images.

Or ever a picture of Jesus in a room...ive thought about this much....in various Christian bookstores you see some of the actors that played the part of Jesus in movies you see their pictures for sale....you put it up on the wall...but why? I think its perhaps best not to because that's not Jesus for one and even if it was we'd for sure start maybe looking at the picture and praying to it. Before you'd know it the picture or the paper its on would be considered a holy thing....and so down that road you'd go...worshipping physical things and somehow thinking looking at an image somehow connects you to God. But we're to follow Jesus after the Spirit and not the flesh anyway so its best not to have them I think.

 

[New_Wineskin]

What does this verse mean to you?

Deuteronomy 5:8 (New International Version)



8 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.

======================

I heard a pastor which I have a lot of faith in preach in his sermon the other night that said we should not have a statue of even Jesus - because there was no saving grace in that statue and that God tells us not to have any craven images.

Yeah , such "pastors" are worse than the Pharasees in Jesus' day . The passage clearly states not making an "idol" . Having a statue of Jesus does not automatically mean that it is an idol ( even though I know of some people having statues and bowing down to them ) . Also , since such a person is an extreme legalist , one could simply state that the passage states not to make "for yourself* an idol . Buying one in a store would not violate the command . Getting nit-picky on the law can work both ways .

 

[JimfromOhio]

When a desire is based on “worship”, there is a danger of idolatry. The seduction of idolatry have been very strong and very successful since the days of the Old Testament books. Throughout the Bible, God have warned people to be careful of idolatry because we could slip into it almost without noticing it. Idolatry is an excessive devotion or reverence to an object or objects (i.e. prosperity, self-motivation, healing and etc). Idolatry is being used as an instrument of worship which is a false notion that causes spiritual errors in thinking or reasoning. False theologies are becoming dangerous to the Christian world because people are worshiping themselves which is a form of idiolatry.

Idolatry is what God is saying something like this for today's Christians, "You have committed adultery by worshiping idols instead of worshiping Me. Your hearts have been unfaithful to me because you are loving yourselves more than you love Me. Your hearts longs for something from Me and that is idolatry. Worship means: All I want is your hearts alone and adore me for Who I am.”

Keep in mind that all personal desires are judged by God’s moral will and wisdom. The heart is the source of our emotions, thoughts and motives. The heart is the part of our being where we desire, deliberate, and decide.

Jesus said in Matthew 6:21, "Wherever your treasure is, there your heart and thoughts will also be." (NLT)

In Proverbs 4:23, "Above all else, guard your heart, for it affects everything you do." (NLT)

In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT)

Basically, when I think of IMAGE:
I ask myself: Am I corrupting my thoughts with my wishful images of God?

Human society is built upon a balance of personal interests. Selfish personal interest is the motive behind all sinners conduct. As a Christian, I still can have sinful desires, foolish desires, proud desires and at the same time, have godly desires. How can I distinguish my desires? Sinners (even though I am saved) I am not basically good without Christ in me because I live in body that carries sin and my struggle will be in the core of my heart. Obviously, my human heart is very selfish. My heart is the source of my emotions, thoughts and motives. My heart is the place of conscience. My heart is the part of my being where I desire, deliberate, and decide. I just have to know what God wants and if I don't glorify correctly, my spiritual actions will be worthless.

Scriptures states that my own interests before God is sin, in God's point of view. The Word of God exposed the sin of self-interest and that I am to live God-centered and others-centered life. If I am seeking God out of my own selfishness (self-interest) other than my personal salvation with Jesus Christ is a form of idolatry which is sin. I need to guard myself and be on the watch against any visible and invisible objects of worship that belongs only to God.

Our hearts (core) are seated deep within our minds where they pollutes our emotions (desires), the intellect (imaginations) and the will (purposes). A Christian should not ask, "If I follow Christ, what will it cost me?". Rather, a Christian should say, "I will follow Christ and let any costs come to me because God will help me walk in it." God will not lead us unless He is able to use us for His own glory. God cannot lead stubborn and selfish Christians who are trying to use God for their own spiritual & personal agendas.

 

[flaglady]

Being the pedant that I am, I feel obliged to point out that the exact definition of the word "graven" is

1 Sculptured, hewn
2 Carved on a surface, engraved

Just thought you'd like to know!!

 

[Sabertooth]

Being the pedant that I am, I feel obliged to point out that the exact definition of the word "graven" is

1 Sculptured, hewn
2 Carved on a surface, engraved

Just thought you'd like to know!!

In English, it can be just about anything that ends in the suffix, -graph. Our modern phrase would be graphic image.

I think there are TWO parts to this equation. It is a graphic image AND somebody bows down to it.

Historically, the Jews did not make ANY images of humans or animals, just to be on the safe side. Our society uses a great deal of graphic imagery in communication.

Consider a poster that illustrates the Heimlich maneuver. It shows a sequence of two humans playing out a choking scenario. Or a textbook of medical illustrations. It is highly improbable that these will ever receive the worship as forbidden.

Making an arbitrary portrait of a man and calling it "Jesus," however, is not too unlike making a golden calf and calling it "YHVH." [See Exo. 32:5 "LORD" = "YHVH"]

Let's not even start with the "saints" and the pagan "gods..."

 

[Mskedi]

What does it mean to me?

It means that I am very uncomfortable respecting my boyfriend's family by not having the soles of my feet point towards the Buddha idols at his house because it makes me afraid that I am somehow showing respect to the idols themselves, which is something I should not do.

But you probably weren't looking for quite that personal a response...

I don't think that icons or images of Jesus are idols, but I do think they can be if they are treated as such, and therefore people should be careful. I don't genuflect or bow towards crosses because of that verse. I do, however, kneel during mass.

 

[SharonL]

What does it mean to me?

It means that I am very uncomfortable respecting my boyfriend's family by not having the soles of my feet point towards the Buddha idols at his house because it makes me afraid that I am somehow showing respect to the idols themselves, which is something I should not do.

But you probably weren't looking for quite that personal a response...

I don't think that icons or images of Jesus are idols, but I do think they can be if they are treated as such, and therefore people should be careful. I don't genuflect or bow towards crosses because of that verse. I do, however, kneel during mass.

I know what you mean - I visited Hawaii with my friend and she wanted to show me the Budda idol and when we went there you had to take your shoes off to walk in - I felt bad taking my shoes off because it felt like I was showing respect to budda. It was only a curiosity visit as I in no way believe any of that, but I felt guilty walking around it just to look even.

 

[Lpe04]

God is beyond our comprehension and far above even the heavens and the earth. The earth is His footstool He is so Almighty and Powerful. Whereas pagan nations at the time made idol statues of their gods, how can you make an image of this Almighty Powerful Holy Holy Holy God? It is not possible. He is too great and mighty that even words can't describe, let alone some statue made of human hands. He is Limitless and Infinite. The heavens and the earth can not contain Him! Praise His name!

God Bless

 

[lismore]

God says not to make idols or images (Greek Icon) in the form of anything in heaven above or earth below. It seems pretty open and shut.


Deuteronomy 4:15

15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below.

Exodus 20

4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

 

[lismore]

Yeah , such "pastors" are worse than the Pharasees in Jesus' day . The passage clearly states not making an "idol" . Having a statue of Jesus does not automatically mean that it is an idol ( even though I know of some people having statues and bowing down to them ) . Also , since such a person is an extreme legalist , one could simply state that the passage states not to make "for yourself* an idol . Buying one in a store would not violate the command . Getting nit-picky on the law can work both ways .

You cant have a statue of Jesus because you dont know what he looks like. You can buy a statue of something called Jesus at a store though. Why do statues of Jesus usually look like the statue of Olympian Zeus though? Ho Hum!