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com7fy8

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How about the study that reported 95% of ppl over 65 put on respirators for covid in NY died? That's a death machine. Any experienced nurse knows that a respirator plus sedatives on an oldie results in almost certain death.
Well, the ones you can relate with might be telling you what you want to hear.

I can see it going different ways. If they do a good job of not putting people on ventilators unnecessarily, then the ones who go on likely are very likely to die anyway. It depends on how well, then, the I.C.U. pulmonologist evaluates, I would say.

But . . . in case . . . you have talked with nurses who are pals with your way of seeing things . . . this might effect how you see things.

genuinely frail or sick ppl) stay out of the way.
I would say this is a good idea, in any case. Instead of saying they are saving lives by not working, simply keep vulnerable people safe.
 
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Telling me what I want to hear? 95% of patients over 65 died under the 'treatment'. Talk about defending the indefensible.

I would say this is a good idea, in any case. Instead of saying they are saving lives by not working, simply keep vulnerable people safe.

Yes, sounds good. But equally, it should be their choice. If an old sick person wants her son to visit her, and he has a covid diagnosis, if he's not coughing on anyone else, why not? They should be free to make their own private arrangement.

This alleged virus isn't of 'plague proportions', no matter what the fear campaigners try to tell you. To put it in context, if 650k ppl have died worldwide this year from it, over 4 million have already died of hunger. On their best numbers, it's still just a bad flu.
 
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com7fy8

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I think you have it all back to front and upside down friend. Perhaps it will help for you to read John MacArthur's statement:
Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church
I took a look. It appears he has a large congregation and they were going to refuse to let the state dictate if they could gather for worship.

But did you read the "Addendum"? It seems "the elders" decided to stop having crowd services. But they are concerned that this thing could go on much longer than they find they were being told it would. Plus, they say there weren't the deaths projected.

I think the amount of deaths has varied, from area to area. If they were lower than expected, that could be because of the restrictions.

Now, they could use John's church as a Guinea piggy, I suppose. I personally would not recommend that.

Maybe we've already had a Guinea pig demonstration > a pastor with heart issues insisted on having crowd services, and he died of the "corvid".

And John looks like a senior.

The addendum seems to be saying they were told wrong, about how long the restrictions would continue, and they seem to be saying this situation has been wrecking church function and unity.

But in genuinely persecuted church areas, I have been told, Christianity grows.

So, this COVID-19 reaction situation could be exposing deep weaknesses and problems of cultural church and mass-gathering methods of ministry.

Our Apostle Paul went to people and ministered to them, and then those people increased in obedience in the absence of Paul > Philippians 2:12. '

And the Thessalonians became able to minister God's word so Paul did not need to say anything if he arrived where the Thessalonians had been before Paul got there.

So, in case a church can not function without a pulpit figurehead . . . the church could be its own main problem. And what do people do when they get exposed > blame someone else.

I would say God has His church growing now, not being decided by what the world is doing.

Thank you for your time to comment.
 
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com7fy8

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Telling me what I want to hear? 95% of patients over 65 died under the 'treatment'. Talk about defending the indefensible.
Like I offer > it depends on how much hope a patient has, if the person is not ventilated. That takes a pulmonologist to evaluate that . . . if it can be done. So, that would effect how to evaluate the statistics. So, I am not defending, but offering that numbers alone do not tell us enough.

For illustration > if all were sure to die without ventilation, that could mean they kept five percent alive, who would have died. So, we need expert, if possible, stats about that aspect.

So, I notice you haven't given us the link to this. Maybe you can. I can try, myself >

Some Doctors Moving Away From Ventilators for Virus Patients – NBC New York

Going from this report . . . numbers of deaths is not what tells us what we need to do. Among other things > it seems ones say it makes a difference when you start a person on a ventilator. If you try everything else until he or she is almost dead, then put the person on the ventilator, may be of course the person is going to die. And it seems the article is saying not all doctors do the same timing. So, I can see numbers alone might not tell us much.

They seem to be saying COVID-19 patients can need the ventilators longer than a bacterial pneumonia patient. I can see why > there is inflammation of the lung lining, in COVID-19, which might not show in bacterial pneumonia. And this could make it harder for the ventilator to deliver oxygen, plus could take longer to clear up. And there are issues of when they start the ventilator, for each patient, and how likely the inflammation would result in the person dying, anyway.

And how would I know? But I see how stats alone might not tell what is needed to know.

Anyway, it says the doctors are working on it; so it might not be ventilators that are the problem, but need to know how to do things. And . . . then . . . if no ventilators were used, what would be the stats??
 
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loveofourlord

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Why should we listen to a quack that thinks demons cause disease and alien sperm vs the rest of the medical community?
 
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com7fy8

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4 million have already died of hunger.
Uh-huh . . . I get your point.

And, indeed, ones can be dying of hunger and related problems, because of unemployment where COVID-19 fears have shut down tourist work, among other possibilities.

But if the thing flew totally loose, it could kill a high percentage of all seniors on the earth. About how many would that be?

People over eighty, now, is said to be 143 million. If they all got sick, the percentage of eighty-year-olds and older dying of COVID-19 has been something like >

13.4% of COVID-19 patients 80 years or older. For rough figuring, ten percent of our 143 million over-eighty people would be . . . 14 million.

But if leaders really cared about people, they might do better to help with the hunger problem. But restrictions can be easier, if people cooperate. If they started calling for everyone to send in money to feed people, that might be harder.
 
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Agreed, I don't like using stats, there's always hidden assumptions involved. But I understand there was a significant change in protocols to deal with covid-positive diagnoses, regardless of how they presented. And ventilation, intubation etc are extreme measures. Couple this with the stress on already sick patients (co-morbidities) who are whisked into isolation rooms by nurses in full PPE, refused access to family and treated like bio-hazards generally...that kind of stress and panic can kill. You've got to put yourself in their position, it's really a frightening and dangerous situation.

I encourage you to always listen to the 'still small voice' of the minority, in my experience it almost always turns out to be the truth. And that's also Biblical. It's the broad path that leads to destruction my friend.
 
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And, indeed, ones can be dying of hunger and related problems, because of unemployment where COVID-19 fears have shut down tourist work, among other possibilities.

Correct, the indirect toll is stupendous. Suicides, domestic violence, alcoholism, various addictions and demons that come from isolation and fear of a future without prospect of economic survival as entire industries evaporate etc etc


That's not a lot in the scheme of things. But more importantly, there are ways to minimise and manage it by keeping the vulnerable safe, as you suggested.

It's always better taking the leap of faith, because we show our trust in God. Hiding like frightened mice in corners is no good for anyone.

But if leaders really cared about people, they might do better to help with the hunger problem. But restrictions can be easier, if people cooperate. If they started calling for everyone to send in money to feed people, that might be harder.

I wouldn't trust the leaders to dispense money to the needy or food to the hungry. They're too corrupt and greedy to be trusted for any worthwhile purpose imo.
 
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com7fy8

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Correct, the indirect toll is stupendous. Suicides, domestic violence, alcoholism, various addictions and demons that come from isolation and fear of a future without prospect of economic survival as entire industries evaporate etc etc
Hiding like frightened mice in corners is no good for anyone.

the 'still small voice' of the minority,
A wee still voice tells me it is right not to fear, and right not to give in to stress, because Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

Because God is almighty and so His peace is almighty to guard us > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:6-7)

So, if ones are fearing and surrendering to alcoholism and suicide and being violent, then it is possible that the COVID-19 . . . and rogue police, for that matter . . . are not their real problem.
 
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Philip_B

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"Kill the sick and the old." - Pro-Life slogan for 2020

-CryptoLutheran
Yes I remain confused as those that seem determined to protect the lives of the unborn appear equally determined to be indifferent to the lives of the already born. go figure?!~
 
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visionary

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Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been used as standard-of-care in more than 300,000 older adults with multicomorbidities, with estimated proportion diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe. Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis
 
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The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has posted a notice of a shortage of hydroxychloroquine. It is not possible to predict the full scope and duration of the shortage or the long term impact the coronavirus pandemic will have on the supply of hydroxychloroquine. At this time, it is unknown whether ending the EUA will impact the current hydroxychloroquine shortage.
 
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