Coveting? Wanting?

[RaymondG]

Why would G_d tell you to break his Law by coveting anything?

My copy of Ferrar Fenton's bible, 1906, in which he translates it as 'earnestly desire' the gifts, So it is not exactly a modern understanding.

My interlinear Bible doesn't have 'covet' in those two places.

The NIV says 'eagerly desire' (Thomson's Study Bible)

I use the Complete Jewish Bible - which contains the Tanach and Christian Testament

Seems to be all the same to me. It is still unwise to eagerly seek, or earnestly desire your neighbors wife. And it is wise to eagerly seek and earnestly desire gifts of the spirit.

Is the words used really that important? or is it the message that matter. covet is not a good or bad word. Neither is the phrase "eagerly seek"

 

[Heber Book List]

Seems to be all the same to me. It is still unwise to eagerly seek, or earnestly desire your neighbors wife. And it is wise to eagerly seek and earnestly desire gifts of the spirit.

Is the words used really that important? or is it the message that matter. covet is not a good or bad word. Neither is the phrase "eagerly seek"

Why are you ripping it out of context?

 

[RaymondG]

Why are you ripping it out of context?

To focus on the message, instead of letting the message get drowned out by the notion of bad words. It is unwise to eagerly seek your neighbors wife and to covet after their wife. So why say coveting after spiritual gifts , KVJ, is wrong, but translations that say "eagerly seek," are right?

 

[RaymondG]

Which is the most literal and best translation, IMO. The Greek in those places reads "ζηλοῦτε" transliterates into "zēloute"or zealous. The KJV (like all other translators) chose where ζηλοῦτε reads "covet" or where it reads another word.

so should we not use the word covet at all? I wouldnt mind that, since there are some who view it a bad word.

 

[tampasteve]

so should we not use the word covet at all? I wouldnt mind that, since there are some who view it a bad word.

Maybe, I am simply pointing out the word used in the original text compared to translations. But yes, you are right - covet does have a bad connotation to it compared to other possible words.

 

[Heber Book List]

To focus on the message, instead of letting the message get drowned out by the notion of bad words. It is unwise to eagerly seek your neighbors wife and to covet after their wife. So why say coveting after spiritual gifts , KVJ, is wrong, but translations that say "eagerly seek," are right?

But who said you have to eagerly seek your neighbour's wife - G_d said you must not covet your neighbour's wife. That was Paul speaking about spiritual gifts as I made abundantly clear.

 

[RaymondG]

But who said you have to eagerly seek your neighbour's wife - G_d said you must not covet your neighbour's wife. That was Paul speaking about spiritual gifts as I made abundantly clear.

The OP ask is coveting the same and wanting, and is wanting just as bad as coveting. I've shown the in some translations of the bible, coveting is used in favorable and unfavorable situations.....Therefore, we should look pass the words and understand the meanings of the situations.

You stated that god would never tell one to covet because it does not appear in the the translations to read. This point, I dont understand why you initially replied to my post....or why we are still talking about the meanings of words. Maybe we should end it here.

 

[RaymondG]

I don't think you are coveting food if you want something because you are hungry.

What is your definition of coveting....and how is the feeling different from one who is really hungry, feelings towards food.

Note, I'm not talking about coveting food that belongs to a neighbor.....but just food in general.

Maybe it would be considered coveting if you are a food hoarder.

hoarding food, which is not eaten (with would be a glutton), would be not be coveting since one has the ability to obtain more than they need. Coveting, seems to be more related to something that one does not have, and cannot obtain easily, in their own eyes.

God said we are not to covet "any thing that is thy neighbour's" and you posted: "If you think about it...there is nothing on earth that is free....belonging to noone else. So everything you desire on earth belongs to someone else"
So coveting is bad.

Yes, we are getting closer to the message and meaning behinds the message. To the Son, the Father says everything I have is Thine. Therefore, there is no reason to look on the brothers dinner party in jealously. When you have Jesus, you have everything.....To covet implies lack....

 

[Heber Book List]

The OP ask is coveting the same and wanting, and is wanting just as bad as coveting. I've shown the in some translations of the bible, coveting is used in favorable and unfavorable situations.....Therefore, we should look pass the words and understand the meanings of the situations.

You stated that god would never tell one to covet because it does not appear in the the translations to read. This point, I dont understand why you initially replied to my post....or why we are still talking about the meanings of words. Maybe we should end it here.

I was going to let this pass until I read your 2nd para. You do realise that is a Messianic Jewish forum?

I actually said, 'why would G_d tell you to break the Law by coveting anything' because you were questioning the word as it appeared in your favourite Bible, and I pointed out that it didn't say that in relation to two texts in the Christian Testament. You asked me to tell you what it said in my Bibles - then you berate me for telling you. The 'meaning of the situations' depend on G_d's word alone, not on how we think they should be applied, if there is any doubt refer back to his word.

Paul, et al, kept the Law and so did Yeshua, so why would they use language that gives the appearance of breaking the Law? It is not the Bible I have that is important, it is that G_d said you must not covet, and he went on to give examples of what he meant. That same wording of Exodus 20 is in every Bible - the problem, therefore, is that the translators of old English Bibles lifted the word from Exodus 20 and put it, in this case, at the end of 1 Corinthian 12. Paul could never have written that! Modern (as in 19C on) began changing it to what we have today, recognizing that it was wrong.

 

[chunkofcoal]

What is your definition of coveting....and how is the feeling different from one who is really hungry, feelings towards food.

Note, I'm not talking about coveting food that belongs to a neighbor.....but just food in general.


hoarding food, which is not eaten (with would be a glutton), would be not be coveting since one has the ability to obtain more than they need. Coveting, seems to be more related to something that one does not have, and cannot obtain easily, in their own eyes.



Yes, we are getting closer to the message and meaning behinds the message. To the Son, the Father says everything I have is Thine. Therefore, there is no reason to look on the brothers dinner party in jealously. When you have Jesus, you have everything.....To covet implies lack....

Words do make a difference and changing one word can change the meaning of what's said.
In Romans 13:9 Paul is writing about the commandments and includes "thou shalt not covet" - covet in this use is:
epithumeō
ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

In these two verses, the meaning is different:
1Co 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
zēloō
dzay-lo'-o
From G2205; to have warmth of feeling for or against: - affect, covet (earnestly), (have) desire, (move with) envy, be jealous over, (be) zealous (-ly affect).
(Definitions are from Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries)

I like the KJV, too, because someone gave me a KJV and it collected dust on the shelf for many years and then I picked it up and started reading. Now it is falling apart from use but it is still my favorite. But now I also have Bible dictionaries, a concordance, and I use Bible computer programs - I've been using "e-sword" for a long time.

There are levels of meaning in the Bible; we can read the English translation, then study the words it was translated from, to gain insight and understanding. In Hebrew even the letters have meaning.

You asked about food in particular, so Numbers 11 might be worth a deeper look.

 

[Heber Book List]

You should consider getting ISA3 Greek / Hebrew / English Interlinear text if you want to do some word studies. You say Strongs number is G2205 for 1 Corinthians 12:31, yet Strongs G2205 contains every thing but 'covet'. It is mentioned in G2206, but if you read that all the way through and look up the references at the end, and 'covet' is hardly used (2 entries). G2205 derives from G2204 which means to be boil, or metaphorically as 'fervency of spirit'.



ISA3 is free from: www.scripture4all.org

 

[chunkofcoal]

You should consider getting ISA3 Greek / Hebrew / English Interlinear text if you want to do some word studies. You say Strongs number is G2205 for 1 Corinthians 12:31, yet Strongs G2205 contains every thing but 'covet'. It is mentioned in G2206, but if you read that all the way through and look up the references at the end, and 'covet' is hardly used (2 entries). G2205 derives from G2204 which means to be boil, or metaphorically as 'fervency of spirit'.



ISA3 is free from: www.scripture4all.org

I downloaded that when you mentioned it recently. I should've checked both programs! Thanks!

 

[RaymondG]

I say we forget the word covet...as suggested earlier. God's commandment had nothing to do with respecting the use of a good or bad words. How about "long after?" Thou shalt not "long after" someone else wife. Is this ok to say? I feel that it is also ok, however, to "Long after" spiritual gifts.

The letter killeth but the spirit maketh alive. amazing how easy it is to focus on letters and words, and forget about the meanings.

If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who will give it freely.....Do you guys believe this? Or are programs and word searches the best way to gain wisdom?

The bible states that one can be ever learning yet never come to the knowledge of the truth.....What is the best way for us to fall under this category?

 

[chunkofcoal]

I say we forget the word covet...as suggested earlier. God's commandment had nothing to do with respecting the use of a good or bad words. How about "long after?" Thou shalt not "long after" someone else wife. Is this ok to say? I feel that it is also ok, however, to "Long after" spiritual gifts.

The letter killeth but the spirit maketh alive. amazing how easy it is to focus on letters and words, and forget about the meanings.

If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who will give it freely.....Do you guys believe this? Or are programs and word searches the best way to gain wisdom?

The bible states that one can be ever learning yet never come to the knowledge of the truth.....What is the best way for us to fall under this category?

I am sorry you are upset, RaymondG, but it is hard not to focus on the word "covet" in a thread which I started with my asking if there is a difference between "coveting" and "wanting."

Yes, I do believe this: "If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who will give it freely" but it is also good to talk about the word - like it's written here:
Deu 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
We may be on a computer and our 'talking' is typing to one another, but 'talking' about the words is what we are doing here.
If one wants to participate in a thread, they are welcome to (as long as they follow the particular forums SOP), if not, they are welcome to go their way in peace.

 

[RDKirk]

The OP ask is coveting the same and wanting, and is wanting just as bad as coveting. I've shown the in some translations of the bible, coveting is used in favorable and unfavorable situations.....Therefore, we should look pass the words and understand the meanings of the situations.

This is the best way to look at it.

For instance, Jesus said that He "lusted" to have the passover with His disciples. Paul said he "lusted" to see Timothy.

So we see that it is a sin to covet/want/desire that which belongs to someone else. The specific verb is irrelevant. The meaning is that one has a desire to deprive a neighbor.

 

[RDKirk]

I am sorry you are upset, RaymondG, but it is hard not to focus on the word "covet" in a thread which I started with my asking if there is a difference between "coveting" and "wanting."

The specific synonym for "desire" is irrelevant.

Whether the desire is evil or righteous depends on the object of desire. The heart is not using words.

 

[RaymondG]

I am sorry you are upset, RaymondG, but it is hard not to focus on the word "covet" in a thread which I started with my asking if there is a difference between "coveting" and "wanting."

What gave you the impression that I was upset? Im just reading words....and there are no good or bad words. If there is a word I used that you believe is bad and/or defensive, you can let me know and I wont use that word when conversing with you. Im not opposed to using only the words you consider "good" so that you arent offended, and wont believe that I am as well.

Yes, I do believe this: "If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who will give it freely" but it is also good to talk about the word - like it's written here:
Deu 6:6-7 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: (7) And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
We may be on a computer and our 'talking' is typing to one another, but 'talking' about the words is what we are doing here.

Yes it is great to reason together, I like doing it.....although it is hard at times, given the sensitive nature of some people and the ambiguity of reading words.

The reasoning we are doing was not what i was talking about. I was referring to the uses of Programs and reverse word searching and comparing to decipher the meanings of the word of God. Greek means this, and this bible version says that..therefore, God meant this..... If God says to Ask Him and he will tell....If I believe this, I would not put my trust, instead, in my knowledge of languages and computer research. For me, "God revealed this to me" trumps all my intellectual knowledge. When someone tells me this.... I have no further questions..

I like intellectual knowledge as well...but I am now willing to give it all up when God reveals something to me....in the past I wasnt and didnt.

I hope you find your answers and are comforted by them.

 

[RaymondG]

This is the best way to look at it.

For instance, Jesus said that He "lusted" to have the passover with His disciples. Paul said he "lusted" to see Timothy.

So we see that it is a sin to covet/want/desire that which belongs to someone else. The specific verb is irrelevant. The meaning is that one has a desire to deprive a neighbor.

I was going to use the "lust" example as well.....but decided not to since the covet examples i used didnt go so well. It is possible that other translations replace the word lust for something else.....diminishing the point, in their eyes.

 

[chunkofcoal]

What gave you the impression that I was upset? Im just reading words....and there are no good or bad words. If there is a word I used that you believe is bad and/or defensive, you can let me know and I wont use that word when conversing with you. Im not opposed to using only the words you consider "good" so that you arent offended, and wont believe that I am as well.



Yes it is great to reason together, I like doing it.....although it is hard at times, given the sensitive nature of some people and the ambiguity of reading words.

The reasoning we are doing was not what i was talking about. I was referring to the uses of Programs and reverse word searching and comparing to decipher the meanings of the word of God. Greek means this, and this bible version says that..therefore, God meant this..... If God says to Ask Him and he will tell....If I believe this, I would not put my trust, instead, in my knowledge of languages and computer research. For me, "God revealed this to me" trumps all my intellectual knowledge. When someone tells me this.... I have no further questions..

I like intellectual knowledge as well...but I am now willing to give it all up when God reveals something to me....in the past I wasnt and didnt.

I hope you find your answers and are comforted by them.

What you said in your post gave me the impression you were upset.

God works with people in different ways. If God reveals something to you, great! If God wants me to poke my nose into Greek and Hebrew dictionaries - great!

 

[RaymondG]

What you said in your post gave me the impression you were upset.

God works with people in different ways. If God reveals something to you, great! If God wants me to poke my nose into Greek and Hebrew dictionaries - great!

Your words cannot offend me....even if offense is intended. I find no fault in you going to dictionaries for wisdom. I hope you find what you seek.