Discussion Covenants

[franky67]

Sorry Franky, the Abrahamic Covenant is not the same as the Mosaic Covenant. That's Exegesis 101.

Andry, glad you're back, praying for a rapid return to full health.

Concerning Mosaic covenant, I believe the ten commandments were an act of grace to show them what their sins were, and yes there is only one covenant, it was with Abraham and to His seed Christ, to bless all the earth.

Please read Galatians chapter 3

God was not displeased with the Abrahamic covenant, bible says He was displeased with them.

 

[Andry]

SpiritPsalmist, Franky67, thank you so much for your prayers! I'm just finally getting back on the saddle, literally and figuratively. As a cyclist I have a 250km charity ride this wknd and my fitness level isn't optimum yet. And work has also piled up at the office that I need to take care of.

SpiritPsalmist, I appreciate our discussions back and forth. Franky, I agree God was not/is not displeased with the Abrahamic covenant, but I think we disagree on the details, as mentioned in Gal 3 and other verses, which is fine. Iron sharpens iron.

 

[franky67]

SpiritPsalmist, Franky67, thank you so much for your prayers! I'm just finally getting back on the saddle, literally and figuratively. As a cyclist I have a 250km charity ride this wknd and my fitness level isn't optimum yet. And work has also piled up at the office that I need to take care of.

SpiritPsalmist, I appreciate our discussions back and forth. Franky, I agree God was not/is not displeased with the Abrahamic covenant, but I think we disagree on the details, as mentioned in Gal 3 and other verses, which is fine. Iron sharpens iron.

So glad You're better, hope you can make the ride.

About 25 years ago, maybe later, I watched TBN and they had a guest named Jay Snell, and he taught on the covenants, and it just made sense to me. He has a website, and his books are free to download. See what you think, I would be interested to hear some feedback.

Blessings

 

[Truthfrees]

About 25 years ago, maybe later, I watched TBN and they had a guest named Jay Snell, and he taught on the covenants, and it just made sense to me. He has a website, and his books are free to download. See what you think, I would be interested to hear some feedback.

Blessings

I started reading "What are Abraham's Blessings Anyway?": http://jaysnell.org/ASGPDF/Book1.pdf

I like how he offers everything free. Matthew 10:8

I agree with how he shows:
1. The Abrahamic Covenant was unbroken through the various stages which he calls seed groups 2, 3, 4, 5:
2. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Case of Isaac, the First Member
3. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Case of Jacob, the Second Member
4. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Nation of Israel (The Abrahamic Blessings Enjoyed by Israel From the Exodus to the Giving of the Law, AND The Abrahamic Blessings Enjoyed by Israel After the Giving of the Law)
5. The Present Abrahamic Seed Group – BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH INCLUDING Christians

The only change I would make is to call the 5th one BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH because "Christians" give the impression the Jews are replaced by Christians, or the covenant has been transferred to the Christians when the truth is:

1. God said: Jeremiah 31:31, Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 10:16
2. Jesus said: Matthew 15:24, John 10:16
3. Paul said: Romans 11:24, Ephesians 2:12

IOW, Christians are grafted into the covenant God made with Israel through Messiah Jesus. So the "title" given to the present day "seed group" needs to reflect the truth of this.

I'll continue reading. Jay has made some very correct scriptural observations, semantics aside. Thanks.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I started reading "What are Abraham's Blessings Anyway?": http://jaysnell.org/ASGPDF/Book1.pdf

I like how he offers everything free. Matthew 10:8

I agree with how he shows:
1. The Abrahamic Covenant was unbroken through the various stages which he calls seed groups 2, 3, 4, 5:
2. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Case of Isaac, the First Member
3. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Case of Jacob, the Second Member
4. The Abrahamic Seed Group – The Nation of Israel (The Abrahamic Blessings Enjoyed by Israel From the Exodus to the Giving of the Law, AND The Abrahamic Blessings Enjoyed by Israel After the Giving of the Law)
5. The Present Abrahamic Seed Group – BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH INCLUDING Christians

The only change I would make is to call the 5th one BELIEVERS IN MESSIAH because "Christians" give the impression the Jews are replaced by Christians, or the covenant has been transferred to the Christians when the truth is:

1. God said: Jeremiah 31:31, Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:8, Hebrews 10:16
2. Jesus said: Matthew 15:24, John 10:16
3. Paul said: Romans 11:24, Ephesians 2:12

IOW, Christians are grafted into the covenant God made with Israel through Messiah Jesus. So the "title" given to the present day "seed group" needs to reflect the truth of this.

I'll continue reading. Jay has made some very correct scriptural observations, semantics aside. Thanks.

Good points

 

[Truthfrees]

Finished reading Chapter 1 of "What are Abraham's Blessings Anyway?: http://jaysnell.org/ASGPDF/Book1.pdf

He uses a lot of words to say what he means, but he's very thorough and accurate.

He's easy to understand and convincing.

Jay Snell has thoroughly studied ETERNAL (FOREVER) COVENANT as per scripture, and the BLESSINGS of this eternal forever covenant.

There's a lot of excellent statements in Chapter 1 but some of my favorites are:
1. The 60 eternal promises on pages 1-3. Genesis 12:1-3, Genesis 13:15-17, Genesis 15:1-21, Genesis 17:1-22, Genesis 22:16-18,

2. The major function of BARAK (bless, blessed, blessing) on page 4.

3. The 7 areas of blessing on page 4.

4. Liberation in it's fullest sense via the blessing on page 5.

5. 23 concepts contained in God's blessing on page 5.

6. The 3 facts of God's blessing on page 5.

7. From page 6: "The God of Scripture (and no other god) made an exclusive commitment in the form of Sixty Promises to one group only, Abraham and his seed, and to no others in recorded history." AND "In Scripture, whether the Old or New Testament, any "blessing" that passes from their one Covenant God of Scripture to this one group covered by the Sixty Promises (Abraham and his seed), that "blessing" owes both its origin and existence to the Abrahamic Covenant, whether the term "blessing" is used or not."

8. From page 6-7: "The term "forever" encompasses the New Testament era as well as the Old Testament era." AND "The Abrahamic Seed Group is still in existence in the New Testament era."

9. Page 7: "Scripture contains no record of Abraham's being ill, since God promised him a "good old age," not a "sickly' old age, mind you, but a "good old age." In addition, his healthy condition enabled him to bear children past the time of childbearing." AND "Genesis 24:1 and 35 describe God's blessings to him as consisting of great wealth."

10. The concordance of terms contained in the Abrahamic covenant on pages 9-10.

Starting Chapter 2 next.

 

[JLB777]

This was the statement in another thread

"I would be more inclined to say that the two Covenants are as different as Darkness is to Light."

Galatians 3:16 says "Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and his seed, He does not say as to seeds, as referring to many, but rather to one, and to your seed, that is Christ."

Rom 8:17 says we are joint heirs with Christ

Which two Covenants are you comparing?


JLB