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Covenant
- Thread starter Im-revived
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It is an agreed relationship between two individuals -in this case between God and manIm-revived said:
Marriage is another example
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msortwell
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One point of clarification however . . .TasManOfGod said:
If there is one party in authority over another (e.g., God over man), both parties need not agree to the conditions of the covenant. The conditions of the covenant are established by the one in authority. The other party need not concur. That party is, none-the-less fully bound by the conditions of the covenant.
Addtionally, a covenant must have the following characteristics:
1. Contracting parties.
2. The conditions of the covenant (e.g., works or faith).
3. The consequences of conformance and/or the penalties for breaking the covenant.
Blessings,
Mike
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I am now reading this book by O. Palmer Robertson, and thought he made a very good case for this definition of "Covenant". He defines covenant as:
"A bond in blood sovereignly administered.
...
A covenant is a "bond-in-blood," committing the participants to loyalty on pain of death. Once the covenant relationship has been entered, nothing less than the shedding of blood may relieve the obligations incurred in the event of covenantal violation."
...
No such thing as bargaining, bartering, or contracting characterizes the divine covenants of Scripture. The sovereign Lord of heaven and earth dictates the terms of his covenant."
These quotes are culled from the first chapter of the book.
aL
"A bond in blood sovereignly administered.
...
A covenant is a "bond-in-blood," committing the participants to loyalty on pain of death. Once the covenant relationship has been entered, nothing less than the shedding of blood may relieve the obligations incurred in the event of covenantal violation."
...
No such thing as bargaining, bartering, or contracting characterizes the divine covenants of Scripture. The sovereign Lord of heaven and earth dictates the terms of his covenant."
These quotes are culled from the first chapter of the book.
aL
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So what happened to the covenants that God made and said they were everlasting?eph3Nine said:
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eph3Nine said:
Not true. In fact, God's covenants and promises are fulfilled in Chirst. The Abrahamic covenant was spoken to Christ. Gal 3:16. So, were all other covenants and promises. 2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory.
To deny's Christ's covenantal promises and fulfillment is to deny Christ's work on the cross. This is not a mystery unforeseen in past ages, in fact the dying and suffering messiah was prophesied by a myriad old testament prophets.
In any case, just so that there's no confusion that even Paul considered himself the minister of THE new covenant (not A new covenant):
2 Co:3 4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;[a] for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
aL
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eph3Nine
Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!
You make the Cross of none effect by minding EARTHLY things.
Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
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eph3Nine
Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!
TubaFour said:
The earthly things belonging to the nation Israel and her program.
Your citizenship is in HEAVEN. YOU have been blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings in the heavenlies.
Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Here, Paul is telling us that we are to follow him, and to IDENTIFY those who walk as he does, as he is our "example". We are told elsewhere that PAUL is to be the pattern for those who believe in this dispensation of Grace.
Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
He is now going to tell us who these enemies of the Cross are. Note they are not enemies of Christ, but of the finished work of the Cross.
Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Notice the last clause of verse 19, which concerns the enemies of the Cross of Christ: "...who mind earthly things.
It is this, the minding of earthly things, which sums up the character of those who, though members of Christs Body, the Church, are NOT walking according to the pattern set forth by the apostle Paul. Minding of earthly things characterizes those who....
"cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine.." (Romans 16:17), through respecting persons and religious practices in the Church.
This minding of earthly things is characteristic of those who "....serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:18)
SET YOUR AFFECTIONS on THINGS ABOVE!
In contrast with the Enemies of the Cross of Christ, who mind earthly things; the apostle Paul says, in Col. 3:2, to "Set your affections on things above, NOT on things of the earth." The phrase, "set your affections", is a translation of a single Greek word; the same word translated "mind" in Phil 3:19, and means to EXERCISE the MIND.
We are instructed, therefore, to exercise our minds toward things above (heavenly things), not to exercise our minds toward earthly things. "For YOU are DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Col 3:3)
And so , Paul goes on to say: "Mortify (or treat as dead) therefore your members which are upon the EARTH; ......Col. 3:5
Excerpt from Enemies of the Cross of Christ by Fred Bachand
Used with permission of the author
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eph3Nine
Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!
ANYONE who does NOT follow the material given ONLY to Paul for we who are His body today, are enemies of the Cross of Christ. Sobering thot, ehh? That means that even some members of His Body who arent following the correct doctrine given to them by God thru Gods appointed apostle TO US, are thereby making the Cross of NONE EFFECT.
I dont want to be one of those people. Do you?
I dont want to be one of those people. Do you?
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Nope, I don't. But, I don't want to be an enemy of the cross of Christ by preaching or teaching more than one gospel either. Do you?
aL
aL
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eph3Nine
Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!
TubaFour said:
Then find out what gospel God is promoting today, and let go of Israels gospel. ITS not saving anyone today.
We teach and preach ONLY ONE GOSPEL for today. However, most of what passes for bible believing Christianity today has a dangerous mixture of both programs...and we are told to keep them SEPARATE. Pauls gospel and body of truth given him BY God to give to we the Body of Christ is all but overlooked and ignored. Satan has a plan to keep this GRACE message obscure, and its working.
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
eph3Nine said:
Nah. Even if it's only a human covenant you can't simply set it aside or change the stipulations. No, you have to either fulfil the covenant or its requirements remain in effect.
You can't invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God.
That's what Paul said to this dispensation(!) (Galatians 3:15,17) and I'd stick with Paul, not someone's interpretation a couple of millenia removed from him.
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eph3Nine
Mid Acts, Pauline, Dispy to the max!
heymikey80 said:
What you dont seem to understand is that Christ alone fulfilled the requirements of the Covenant. Israel didnt and YOU cant. Thats why He began His MYSTERY program with BOTH in view. "He concluded BOTH in UNBELIEF (jew and gentile) so that He could have mercy upon ALL"
I was never given a covenant relationship with God. It was a marriage agreement between Israel and God. I have NO part in it.
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
eph3Nine said:
Um, that'd make all the other dispensations bunk. Nobody's gonna get to heaven before Paul on the Damascus road.
But ... not. Heb 11.
If you're in Christ you're in the covenant relationship with God. Christ was born under the Law. He fully satisfied the terms of the Covenant, yet paid the price of failing it.
If you're in Christ you have every part of the Covenant relationship with God -- certainly that's a little more than "NO part in it." "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me." John 17:20-21
Paul wrote of the marriage agreement between Jesus and the church, to the church in Ephesus (Ep 5:23ff). That is quite clear.
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Im-revived said:
A covenant is an agreement, a Biblical covenant is a bit mor elaborate. Firstly a Biblical covenant is a covenant that the Bible describes as a covenant. That is it is called a covenant in the Bible. They can be discovered by putting the word covenant into your search engine and then standing back and seeing what comes out. Once you do this you will see that there are covenants which the Bible reports between men and other men and there are covenants between God and men. All covenants are not the same, not alll biblical covenants are the same. Some, that is the ones between God and men are unconditional, that is unconditional in regards to man, that is man does not have to do anything, they are unconditional. Others are conditional. A third distinction in covenants is that some are eternal while some are temporary.
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TubaFour said:
How do these conditions fit with the covenant given to Noah? There is no blood stipulation in it, there is no pain of death in it either, there is no obligation on man in it either.
I think your book is generalizing too much in regards to all covenants...yet it seems to be a fair assessment in regards to the Mosiac Covenant.
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