Covenant with Adam???

[TasManOfGod]

The sin issue is only dealt with by those who deal with it For the rest it remains. Why else do we preach a Gospel of Jesus. There is no other reason.
Overcoming is for those who overcome not those who dont.

 

[eph3Nine]

LOL...the overcoming is for the nation Israel. We arent told to overcome, but to believe in the OVERCOMER.

The whole issue of the Cross is that God is no longer dealing with mankind on the basis of their SINS. He has reconciled the world unto Himself and WE are to be ambassadors of THAT gospel, not of Israels gospel.

The sin issue is DONE. Belief in the SIN BEARER and His performance on the Cross as sufficient is the ONLY gospel that saves today, and should be the ONLY gospel we preach. Any other gospel is accursed according to Gal. 1:8,9

Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[TasManOfGod]

LOL...the overcoming is for the nation Israel. We arent told to overcome, but to believe in the OVERCOMER.

I am sorry but I must disagree. Here are some reasons why:
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[eph3Nine]

Again, I must remind you that James , Peter and John were ministers to the nation Israel. Those words are addressed to jewish folks under a jewish program in ages to Come, when God again resumes His program with Israel.

That Jesus was the Son of God was the criteria for salvation under the Kingdom Program...He WAS the prophesied Messiah, the One promised to them. They were to believe ON HIS NAME. The SENT ONE, the Christ....the promised MESSIAH.

Note that John doesnt mention the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the criteria for salvation, because THAT information wasnt the criteria for them.

The PURPOSE of the Cross was ONLY revealed to Paul. Israel was SET ASIDE as the favored nation thru which all other nations would come to God. Their UNBELIEF caused God to "conclude them ALL (Jews along with gentiles) in UNBELIEF, so that He could have mercy upon all."

Before the world could be reconciled, Israel had to become as all other nations thru UNBELIEF. HER fall became the worlds chance to be redeemed. Instead of coming thru Israels RISE, we find scripture echoing this truth...the world comes to redemption thru Israels FALL. And God knew about it all the time. He had a SECRET. It was the preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION Of the MYSTERY...Romans 16:25

God is today dealing with mankind on their response to the finished work of Calvary...in GRACE.

 

[TasManOfGod]

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Those words are addressed to jewish folks under a jewish program in ages to Come, when God again resumes His program with Israel.

.

I am sorry but what you say just not compute

 

[eph3Nine]

John, James and Peter are ministers to the CIRCUMCISION. That means that their words were to the Nation ISRAEL.

Gen thru Acts - God dealing with the NATION Israel

Romans thru Philemon - God dealing with the Body of Christ

Hebrews thru Rev. - God dealing with the nation Israel AGAIN, after the interruption of the MYSTERY PROGRAM where we, the body of Christ get OUR information.

Times PAST = Israel/Gen thru Acts

But NOW = WE, the Body of Christ/Romans thru Philemon

Ages to Come = Israel again/Hebrews thru Revelation.

God tells us how to study our bible and even lays it out in the manner we find in Eph 2:11, 12, 13 and verse 7

Times PAST, But NOW, and AGES TO COME.


ONLY THE BUT NOW HAS TO DO WITH US, WHO ARE THE CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY!

 

[TasManOfGod]

John, James and Peter are ministers to the CIRCUMCISION. That means that their words were to the Nation ISRAEL.

Gen thru Acts - God dealing with the NATION Israel

Romans thru Philemon - God dealing with the Body of Christ

Hebrews thru Rev. - God dealing with the nation Israel AGAIN, after the interruption of the MYSTERY PROGRAM where we, the body of Christ get OUR information.

Times PAST = Israel/Gen thru Acts

But NOW = WE, the Body of Christ/Romans thru Philemon

Ages to Come = Israel again/Hebrews thru Revelation.

God tells us how to study our bible and even lays it out in the manner we find in Eph 2:11, 12, 13 and verse 7

Times PAST, But NOW, and AGES TO COME.


ONLY THE BUT NOW HAS TO DO WITH US, WHO ARE THE CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY!

Where on earth did you get that convoluted doctrine from?

 

[eph3Nine]

Its all right there in YOUR bible. LOL LOL

Did you bother to look up the references?

 

[msortwell]

God tells us how to study our bible and even lays it out in the manner we find in Eph 2:11, 12, 13 and verse 7

Times PAST, But NOW, and AGES TO COME.

Although you don’t seem inclined to substantiate any of your claims by analysis of the Scriptures, let’s give it a try.

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. KJV

Eph 2:7
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. KJV

Claim: God tells us how to study Scripture in the cited text.
Observation: There is no reference to Scriptures in general. There is no reference to study or analysis. There is no reference to interpretation.

Sorry, your cited references do not substantiate your position. Actually they have little (if any) relationship to the subject matter being discussed.

 

[eph3Nine]

Im not responsible for someone NOT seeing the obvious. Its right there in the scriptures.

It tells of a time when we gentiles HAD NO STANDING WITH GOD at all, and that NOW...something has changed and we DO.

You wanted to know how God makes divisions...there it is. You might try reading and studying this :

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

 

[msortwell]

Im not responsible for someone NOT seeing the obvious. Its right there in the scriptures.

It tells of a time when we gentiles HAD NO STANDING WITH GOD at all, and that NOW...something has changed and we DO.

You wanted to know how God makes divisions...there it is. You might try reading and studying this :

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

And every dispensationalist, and every CTer will agree that the Scriptures cited "tells of a time when we gentiles HAD NO STANDING WITH GOD at all, and that NOW...something has changed and we DO." But that does not prove your point regarding the rejecting of some text as for Jews and some for Gentiles. Nor does it

While it is true that you are not responsible for someone not seeing the obvious, you are responsible for the arrogance and disrespect that you display, by which you do damage to your own position.

“Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.” (Col 4:6 AV)

You lack grace.

 

[eph3Nine]

And every dispensationalist, and every CTer will agree that the Scriptures cited "tells of a time when we gentiles HAD NO STANDING WITH GOD at all, and that NOW...something has changed and we DO." But that does not prove your point regarding the rejecting of some text as for Jews and some for Gentiles. Nor does it

While it is true that you are not responsible for someone not seeing the obvious, you are responsible for the arrogance and disrespect that you display, by which you do damage to your own position.

“Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.” (Col 4:6 AV)

You lack grace.

Im sure sorry you feel that way. Seems that whenever we get close to the REAL message, one starts with attacks on the messenger.

 

[TubaFour]

The real message is not found in dispensationalism. It is obscured by it.

aL

 

[eph3Nine]

THE ONLY message and gospel that saves today is found in the dispensation of the GRACE OF GOD>..given to Paul for us.

 

[TubaFour]

THE ONLY message and gospel that saves today is found in the dispensation of the GRACE OF GOD>..given to Paul for us.

How are modern day jews saved?

By which Gospel?

When was the kingdom suspended/postponed? Can you be specific?

aL

 

[eph3Nine]

How are modern day jews saved?

By which Gospel?

When was the kingdom suspended/postponed? Can you be specific?

aL

There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile today. A "jew" would believe in 1 Cor 15:1-4, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ to be sufficient to reconcile them to God, just as the rest of us.

The Gospel of OUR salvation is found ONLY in Pauls epistles. The Gospel of the GRACE of God.

The entire book of Acts shows us Israels program Phasing OUT, and the Dispensation of the Grace of God phasing IN. By Acts 28:28, Israel was totally set aside and Gods MYSTERY plan was the only Offer on the table.

 

[Jerrysch]

Oh, now I have a few questions. How did it relate to Eve? God didn't command Eve. If ours is a reach, what a reach to assume this was a command to Eve. Maybe Adam just misunderstood God. So she was OK to eat from it?

You are correct the warning was given before she was created, yet her guilt regarding eating it was not diminished, we are left to suggest that Adam told here of the instruction. The fact that she did not claim that she was unaware of the warning suggests that Adam had in fact given here this vital information. It seems clear from the entire context that Adam understood that if any person was to eat they would die... sadly he failed to act consistant with his understanding.

 

[Jerrysch]

Oh, now I have a few questions.
And how about their kids? Why do they die? And their kids? And so on? Why does Scripture declare that "through one man sin entered the world and death through sin ..."?

That is a very good question... CT would suggest that this covenant of "works" indicated that there was a curse death if you ate, and a promice... eternal life if you didnot eat. Well, the faultyness of this theory is to be found in that the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve did not eat... and they still died. So if this were the all encoumpassing covenant of works with its single provision of don't eat... why do we all die? Even in the context of this "covenant" there is not even one statement regarding sin, not one. Clearly this is not a covenant, at least in the sence of Biblical covenants.

 

[Jerrysch]

Oh, now I have a few questions....
Wasn't about twice as much actually declared to Adam than "this singular command" -- which itself isn't a command to perform, it's a command to not perform (don't eat).

Wasn't the Tree of Life planted in the Garden of Eden as well? Hm, and it was mentioned prior to the stipulations from God. What is the Tree of Life?

How is this "distorted into some sort of universal promice of eternal life to mankind at large"? What's the distortion?

The command was simple :
Genesis 2:16-17 16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
The distortion is in adding to the text and indicating that somehow if Adam had been obediant to this singular command that eternal life would follow. CT adds this distortion when they consider this instruction as a covenant of works.

 

[Jerrysch]

Oh, now I have a few questions.
Wasn't the Tree of Life planted in the Garden of Eden as well? Hm, and it was mentioned prior to the stipulations from God. What is the Tree of Life?

.

We are not told much about the tree of life, other than that it gave... life. As a side note, would you suggest that it was not a literal tree? That is a tree with leaves and roots and all the things that a tree has?