Counting the Whole Number of Persons -- Trump doesn't want to obey Constitution

[essentialsaltes]

The text of the Constitution is clear about the Census:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

as is the superseding 14th Amendment:

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.

And yet...

Trump signs order targeting undocumented immigrants in the US census

President Donald Trump signed a presidential memorandum on Tuesday that would exclude undocumented immigrants from being counted in congressional districts when district lines are redrawn next year.

The memorandum marks the Trump administration's latest effort to change the way US populations are counted and advance the President's immigration agenda. And like previous efforts, the issue will end up in court.

"I have accordingly determined that respect for the law and protection of the integrity of the democratic process warrant the exclusion of illegal aliens from the apportionment base, to the extent feasible and to the maximum extent of the President's discretion under the law," the order states.

Even though no citizenship question is on this year's census, advocates worried lingering fears over the question would deter immigrants from responding and lead to shortfalls in funding for schools, roads and other community projects.

In addition, Geltzer said, the census doesn't currently ask whether someone immigrated illegally to the United States. "Presumably the Trump administration will have to rely on a hodgepodge of other records to guess the population they intend to use for apportionment."

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Trump's move is obviously unconstitutional. The people around him probably know it. Like his earlier failed attempt to add a citizenship question to the census, the intent is to scare people into not filling out the census.

 

[Hank77]

I can't vote for Biden fast enough.

 

[Skewpoint]

Hey Pro-Lifers, I haven't heard a peep about counting pregnant women as 2 people. Could you get on that soon to make it seem like you actually care about that issue? Thanks. You can go ahead and chastise Trump for this unconstitutional move first though. I can be patient.

 

[CaspianSails]

Not unconstitutional at all. The founders would never have counted a person illegally in the country. You do not count a person with no standing and no right to be here. In fact if the law were followed instead of ignored they would be removed. Just because you refuse to follow the law does not mean the lawbreakers have a right to representation. As far as the unborn, they count once they are born, well if they are born and not murdered.

 

[variant]

Not unconstitutional at all. The founders would never have counted a person illegally in the country. You do not count a person with no standing and no right to be here. In fact if the law were followed instead of ignored they would be removed. Just because you refuse to follow the law does not mean the lawbreakers have a right to representation. As far as the unborn, they count once they are born, well if they are born and not murdered.

The neat trick for interpreting the constitution is that it says "persons" when it means persons and it say "citizens" when it means citizens.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Not unconstitutional at all. The founders would never have counted a person illegally in the country. You do not count a person with no standing and no right to be here.

They couldn't have counted people here illegally - when the founders were around, there was no such thing as being in the country illegally. Our borders were entirely open.

 

[Broken Fence]

Undocumented workers are illegal aliens. You can come to USA but you must come legally. Why is this so hard to understand? If an American went to another country. They need a visa to work, hello. Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Undocumented workers are illegal aliens. You can come to USA but you must come legally. Why is this so hard to understand? If an American went to another country. They need a visa to work, hello.

That's not relevant to the subject of whether or not they get counted in the census.

 

[Broken Fence]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Not unconstitutional at all. The founders would never have counted a person illegally in the country. You do not count a person with no standing and no right to be here. In fact if the law were followed instead of ignored they would be removed. Just because you refuse to follow the law does not mean the lawbreakers have a right to representation. As far as the unborn, they count once they are born, well if they are born and not murdered.

Quote the part of the Constitution that says what you want it to say, then. Give a SPECIFIC quote of the Constitution.

 

[FenderTL5]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

Not so. All persons, as the Constitution states, is the traditional count.
Trump has been trying to make it so only citizens are counted. The Supreme Court has already struck down his attempt to get the "citizenship question (are you a citizen)" into the Census. (see story here)

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

If the founders had meant citizens, they would have said citizens. They used the word "citizen" in many other places in the Constitution. However, they instead chose to use the word "person" when discussing the census.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

That is not true and has never been true.

 

[Speedwell]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

That's not what the Constitution says.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Not unconstitutional at all. The founders would never have counted a person illegally in the country. You do not count a person with

"Counting the whole number of persons."

Gotta count them all.

 

[variant]

Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

Read the document:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

We did away with the "three fifths of all other persons" bit.

Now answer the simple question. Does it say citizens or does it say persons?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

The Constitution even mentions counting the 3/5th people who were specifically not citizens.

So much for the Confederacy being the sole supporter of slavery…

 

[Hank77]

Undocumented workers are illegal aliens. You can come to USA but you must come legally. Why is this so hard to understand? If an American went to another country. They need a visa to work, hello. Only citizens are counted in cenus. Jeez.

Do you care about businesses succeeding? Do you care about jobs provided by those businesses? Because if you do you will want businesses to have the vital information that helps them to make decisions, maybe even in your community.

The 2020 Census will be valuable to businesses, as the results will provide a rich set of data on the communities they serve, including population trends and growth projections.

Business owners rely on census results to make decisions, such as where to open new stores, restaurants, factories, or offices, where to expand operations, where to recruit employees, and which products and services to offer.

Importance of the Data

Oh and if you don't want property taxes to increase schools need the proper funding for the number of students they serve.

 

[CaspianSails]

Quote the part of the Constitution that says what you want it to say, then. Give a SPECIFIC quote of the Constitution.

As we always say, context matters. Quote me the part of the Constitution that states a woman has the right to an abortion. There is not even historic context for that one.

 

[CaspianSails]

The neat trick for interpreting the constitution is that it says "persons" when it means persons and it say "citizens" when it means citizens.

Ah yes because those who are legally in the US who are not citizens are persons. Those who are here illegally have no legal standing.