LDS Could the Mormon god have been a sinner?

[Rescued One]

 

[Ironhold]

Could you please provide a summation?

It's largely considered rude to just post videos without summation or context.

Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormons give various answers to that question:
Yes, no, IDK.

 

[He is the way]

Mormons give various abswers to that question:
Yes, no, IDK.

Christians also don't know. The flood killed lots of men, women, and children. God gave Samson the strength to kill the Philistines. There has always been some confusion concerning the commandments. Jesus said it was alright to heal on the Sabbath. He was accused of blasphemy and sentenced to death. I am not advocating breaking the commandments by any means. We need to keep the commandments of LOVE. They are for our benefit in helping us to learn the ways of LOVE. Should we judge God?

 

[Rescued One]

This thread is NOT about judging! It is about learning what Mormons believe. Nor is it about Christianity. Our God never sinned.

 

[Rescued One]

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through...."

Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152-153

 

[Peter1000]

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).

President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through...."

Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152-153

What do all of these sayings have to do with God never sinned? Our God had the free will to sin, but he did not sin. That is much more powerful than a God that cannot sin because he is divine.

Our God, because he has the free will to sin, can actually know what we go through, and why we sin, and can have compassion on us and give us mercy, because he knows the awful nature of temptation.

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day, and therefore cannot judge righteously, not having the free will to sin, but somehow is shielded from temptation and cannot sin if he wanted to. This God would not have the same kind of mercy that Jesus Christ obviously has.

 

[Jamesone5]

What do all of these sayings have to do with God never sinned? Our God had the free will to sin, but he did not sin. That is much more powerful than a God that cannot sin because he is divine.

Our God, because he has the free will to sin, can actually know what we go through, and why we sin, and can have compassion on us and give us mercy, because he knows the awful nature of temptation.

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day, and therefore cannot judge righteously, not having the free will to sin, but somehow is shielded from temptation and cannot sin if he wanted to. This God would not have the same kind of mercy that Jesus Christ obviously has.

What are you talking about--especially in this last paragraph?

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day---Peter1000


"Heart wrenching temptations" that we mortals have to face?
You become a new creation in Christ---the heart wrenching temptations are no more or at least we will find a way to escape temptation.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Boy, Mormons have no clue about these "heart wrenching temptations" that obviously they alone have to face.

 

[He is the way]

What are you talking about--especially in this last paragraph?

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day---Peter1000


"Heart wrenching temptations" that we mortals have to face?
You become a new creation in Christ---the heart wrenching temptations are no more:

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Boy, Mormons have no clue about these "heart wrenching temptations" that obviously they alone have to face.

(New Testament | Matthew 4:1)

1 THEN was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

Paul said:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 10:23)

23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

So why did Paul say this?:

Answer: Twice in his first letter to the Corinthian church, Paul uses the statement “all things are lawful unto me” (KJV), once in 1 Corinthians 6:12 and again in 1 Corinthians 10:23. In both instances, the apostle is warning the church against misusing Christian liberty. We’ll take a look at both passages in their immediate context.

In 1 Corinthians 6, Paul is finishing up his address of several specific sins the Corinthian believers were tolerating: some church members were taking advantage of each other in court (verses 1–8), and others were practicing immorality (verses 12–20). In this context, the apostle says, “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any” (verse 12, KJV). In this verse, Paul seems to be anticipating an argument from those who justified their sin in the name of “Christian liberty.” His point is that liberty has limitations. He moves right into proofs that sexual immorality is at odds with the Christian life, and no amount of “Christian liberty” can excuse it.

From: What does it mean that “all things are lawful unto me” (1 Corinthians 6:12; 10:23)? | GotQuestions.org

Jesus was tempted and Paul was free to choose good or evil.

 

[Rescued One]

What do all of these sayings have to do with God never sinned? Our God had the free will to sin, but he did not sin. That is much more powerful than a God that cannot sin because he is divine.

Our God, because he has the free will to sin, can actually know what we go through, and why we sin, and can have compassion on us and give us mercy, because he knows the awful nature of temptation.

I QUOTED your leaders as published in your lesson manuals. You have no scripture that says Heavenly Father never sinned.

Your god had no free will; he never existed.

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day, and therefore cannot judge righteously, not having the free will to sin, but somehow is shielded from temptation and cannot sin if he wanted to. This God would not have the same kind of mercy that Jesus Christ obviously has.

You god has NO mercy.

My God is omniscient. So don't try to tell us that He doesn't know what we go through. He knows everything!

 

[He is the way]

I QUOTED your leaders as published in your lesson manuals. You have no scripture that says Heavenly Father never sinned.

Your god had no free will; he never existed.



You god has NO mercy.

My God is omniscient. So don't try to tell us that He doesn't know what we go through. He knows everything!

You said: You god has NO mercy.

That is not true:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(New Testament | Romans 9:14 - 16)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[Jamesone5]

What do all of these sayings have to do with God never sinned? Our God had the free will to sin, but he did not sin. That is much more powerful than a God that cannot sin because he is divine.

Our God, because he has the free will to sin, can actually know what we go through, and why we sin, and can have compassion on us and give us mercy, because he knows the awful nature of temptation.

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day, and therefore cannot judge righteously, not having the free will to sin, but somehow is shielded from temptation and cannot sin if he wanted to. This God would not have the same kind of mercy that Jesus Christ obviously has.

Your God apparently knows nothing of heart wrenching temptation that we mortals are faced with every minute of every day, ----Peter1000

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

This is a promise from the True God if you trust Him.
No more of this "heart wrenching temptation" when you become a new creation in Christ.

And this verse says essentially the same

2 Peter 2:9
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

And I imagine that all comes from you false "hope to endure to the end" directive in your Articles of Faith.

 

[Rescued One]

You said: You god has NO mercy.

That is not true:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(New Testament | Romans 9:14 - 16)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Those Bible verses refer to OUR God, not your false god who teaches that you have to EARN his mercy and your false savior had to EARN the right to be your savior.


Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 130


To qualify as the Redeemer of all our Father’s children, Jesus had to be perfectly obedient to all the laws of God. Because He subjected Himself to the will of the Father, He grew “from grace to grace, until he received a fulness” of the Father’s power. Thus He had “all power, both in heaven and on earth.” (D&C 93:13, 17.)
Ezra Taft Benson, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, General Conference, October 1983

President Benson later was a prophet.

 

[He is the way]

Those Bible verses refer to OUR God, not your false god who teaches that you have to EARN his mercy and your false savior had to EARN the right to be your savior.


Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 130


To qualify as the Redeemer of all our Father’s children, Jesus had to be perfectly obedient to all the laws of God. Because He subjected Himself to the will of the Father, He grew “from grace to grace, until he received a fulness” of the Father’s power. Thus He had “all power, both in heaven and on earth.” (D&C 93:13, 17.)
Ezra Taft Benson, President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, General Conference, October 1983

President Benson later was a prophet.

The true God of the bible does have mercy on those who LOVE Him and keep the commandments. I believe in the God of the Bible:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(New Testament | John 15:10 - 14)

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jesus did not sin therefore He became the author of salvation to those who LOVE Him:

(New Testament | John 16:33)

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

[Rescued One]

The true God of the bible does have mercy on those who LOVE Him and keep the commandments. I believe in the God of the Bible

Mercy is a gift of God. And all of us have sinned and broken commandments, especially Joseph Smith:

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” Bernard P. Brockbank, “The Living Christ,” Ensign, May 1977, p. 26

Actually, no Christian worships your false Christ.

“And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit.”
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p.269

“Jesus became a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws.”
Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 51

LDS Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, p. 126

 

[He is the way]

Mercy is a gift of God. And all of us have sinned and broken commandments, especially Joseph Smith:

“Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization anyhow. All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372; History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” Bernard P. Brockbank, “The Living Christ,” Ensign, May 1977, p. 26

Actually, no Christian worships your false Christ.

“And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit.”
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p.269

“Jesus became a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws.”
Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 51


LDS Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, p. 126

We worship God the Father of the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus told us how they are one:

(New Testament | John 17:11)

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

(New Testament | John 17:21 - 23)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

We believe in the Jesus Christ who's God is the Father:

(New Testament | John 20:17)

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

You can believe in whatever God, and Son, and Ho;y Ghost you want to believe in. That being said it is very important to repent, be baptized and thereafter sin no more.

 

[BigDaddy4]

We worship God the Father of the Bible and His Son Jesus Christ of the Bible.

So your [false] prophets were wrong when they said you worship a different Jesus than Christianity?

 

[He is the way]

So your [false] prophets were wrong when they said you worship a different Jesus than Christianity?

We worship the true God of the Bible:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[BigDaddy4]

We worship the true God of the Bible:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 8:6)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

IF indeed you worship "the true God of the Bible", then you do not worship the gods that your religion teaches about. So are you going to leave your religion to worship the true God?

 

[He is the way]

IF indeed you worship "the true God of the Bible", then you do not worship the gods that your religion teaches about. So are you going to leave your religion to worship the true God?

Why would I leave the true Church of Jesus Christ to follow someone else?