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This is going to sound crazy, but I do think music had a lot to do with it. Not saying music was 100% clean before the 50's, but rock and roll seemed to really take off alongside a huge, public shift in morals.Do you think the relative freefall of morality that started around the 1960s could have been avoided? How in what kind of way?
I also don't believe we should go back to before the 1960s in all ways, but I believe the traditionalists and conservatives have a point sometimes.
Society's standards change. Morals do not.
An atheist claiming that Christianity is not oppressed in western democratic society is like a WASP claiming that African-Americans have equal opportunity under the law in the U.S.Hasty? Not really. I started a discussion on this very topic a few weeks ago.
Christian Privilege
This isn't an atheist issue. We have two moral systems clashing ; one belonging to Christianity and the other owned by the broader society. By society's moral standards Christianity sometimes behaves badly.
OB
Clearly, you've mistaken me for someone who recognizes Oxford University as a universal authority on the definition of morality.You're making the same mistake made by many Christians. The word 'moral' is not a specific reference to Christian standards. All societies have moral standards and morality has varied enormously through time and across cultures.
What you are referring to is Christian morality which may or may not have changed over time. Christian morality is just one of thousands of moral codes.
This is the Oxford Dictionary's definition of moral. You'll notice that it doesn't mention Christianity.
OB
1. A lesson that can be derived from a story or experience.
2. Standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong.
Like what?I was saying that there were some things that we lost that turned out to be good for us.
If you're trying to pin me down to admitting I reject the plurality of "moral codes" and adhere to the existence of absolute truth then, by all means, I do so acquiesce.Christian morality is just one of thousands of moral codes.
That's very clever.Well, if the church had any standards, we might use those.
The church ought to allow herself to be judged morally by the standards of the world?
Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.How about if people in the Body of Christ started operating as the early church did.
Such as making sure everyone in the Body of Christ had every need met.
Such as eliminating ethnic bigotry within the Body of Christ (or at least setting up systems to prevent its practice).
I agree. After all, the homicide rate is half of what it was in 1991, the rate of violent crime is also way down. So, it’s got to be sex, even though the rate of abortions keeps dropping as does the rate of teenage pregnancies and divorces.Which morals exactly do you mean? The ones where women were suppressed? Were black people were treated as second class citizens?
Don't bother to answer. It's obvious you mean sex. It's always about sex.
I think the ramped up consumerism in the land of the financial victor after WWII played a major part. Music and other lifestyles was a by-product. The spoils of war have a historical habit of being more destructive than war itself.This is going to sound crazy, but I do think music had a lot to do with it. Not saying music was 100% clean before the 50's, but rock and roll seemed to really take off alongside a huge, public shift in morals.
Like what?
Interesting claim, what makes you think there has been a freefall of morality? I'm currently reading, "The Better Angels of Our Nature" by Steven Pinker and evidence points to this being the least violent, least oppressive time in human history.Do you think the relative freefall of morality that started around the 1960s could have been avoided? How in what kind of way?
I also don't believe we should go back to before the 1960s in all ways, but I believe the traditionalists and conservatives have a point sometimes.
Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.
You might want to do some review. The Bible says a lot more than that about what everyone should see in a Christian.According to scripture, that is what everyone should see.
But as it is, the Body of Christ in America cares enough about nobody to make sure all their needs are met.
You might want to do some review. The Bible says a lot more than that about what everyone should see in a Christian.
Are you being facetious?Does it?
Are you being facetious?
Yes. It does.
I sense a trap has been laid.
Yes, by all means. Then, at least, everyone could see that the church cares very, very much about... the church.
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