Could Somone Please Explain to Me the UPCI "Oneness" Idea?

[Bulldog]

I am confused with this teaching. Can somone explain it to me?

 

[Saulball]

I think its that Jesus is fully God (which Trinitarians accept) and it's him only. Although, they talk about the Holy Ghost, but I never have heard one say "father"

come on say the word.....it's scriptural God the Father, the epistles all say it. I agree that Jesus is fully God, but he is seated at the right hand of God the Father. The lamb takes the scroll out of the ONE who sits on the throne.

Where Jesus claims to be the father is what they use. I don't think it's far off from really what Trinitarians are saying...We are not polytheistic as UPC says, we both believe in ONE GOD.

 

[I'm4Him]

'For I and my father are ONE'

'Hear O Israel, the lord your God is one'

And sorry to say but the UPCI oneness is not an idea. Read your bible and you will see that it is what Jesus said right from the beginning.

 

[Saulball]

'For I and my father are ONE'

'Hear O Israel, the lord your God is one'

And sorry to say but the UPCI oneness is not an idea. Read your bible and you will see that it is what Jesus said right from the beginning.

I agree God is one, but he is mentioned as God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. If it is JESUS ONLY, can we take every reference of the Holy Spirit and God the Father out? I don't understand that. Paul continually referred to God the Father, and his son Jesus Christ, thru sanctification by the Spirit. Does the UPC church know more than Paul, Peter, John???

Noone is denying that Jesus is fully God...he claimed to be God "I am", etc. But why would a certain church know something that is contrary to scripture (remember we must take it literally, everything is not spiritual)

When paul says "grace, peace and mercy from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ" is Paul messed UP?

When the Lamb takes the scroll from the ONE who sits on the throne, was JOhn on Drugs...you have to get a practical understanding of God and not limit him.

YES JESUS is FULLY GOD, and we serve one God.

I and my father are ONE - in purpose, unity etc. They are listed as having different functions, unless all the apostles are wrong...

 

[Yitzchak]

They don't believe in the Trinity. The believe that the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus are all different manifestations of the same God and not individual persons as part of a triune God. If you look closely at trinity teaching, it teaches God in three persons. They teach God in one person.

 

[Saulball]

They don't believe in the Trinity. The believe that the Father, Holy Spirit, and Jesus are all different manifestations of the same God and not individual persons as part of a triune God. If you look closely at trinity teaching, it teaches God in three persons. They teach God in one person.

It's kind of hard to comprehend, and bordering on Polytheism really (trinity). I mean God in 3 persons...that's like Me, My dad, and my brother saying we are one. The bible never says God in 3 PERSONS...it actually never teaches alot about the Trinity...Paul never dedicated a chapter to it...although he repeats the scriptures I mentioned above "God the Father, thru our Lord Jesus Christ"...I believe God is fully God...but have we overtaught a principle not really discussed....it has come to a point of much contention. Actually Jews see him as ONE God, not the Trinity. I had a jew tell me that once.. Really is it 3 distinct or different persons, or is it 3 manifestations of that ONE true God...I believe they are like a pie slice into 3 pieces...they are part of the same PIE, but have different jobs....The trinity was taught thru a creed, was it hte Nicene creed? I always thought, if God never discusses it much, we shouldn't either.....I don't think God cares if we see him as 1 or 3 in 1 as long as we have a pure heart and Honor the Lord Jesus Christ...I don't think he cares if we baptise in Jesus name or the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...he's looking at our heart...we've got bigger fish to fry. Thoughts???

 

[BearJim]

The "onenes" teaching of the UPC is an old heresy, known in the 2nd and 3rd centuries as Modalism. It was vigorously denounced by such church fathers as Tertullian, Cyprian and others. The basic premise was to protect the unity of the Godhead, stating that God was manifested in the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Spirit in regeneration- all three of whom are Jesus. As an aside, the UPC also teaches that you must be baptized in the name of Jesus only and speak in tongues or you are not saved.
Oneness brethren blur the distinctions between the persons of the Godhead. After all, who was Jesus praying to in the Garden? Who descended on Jesus at his baptism? And whose voice spoke from heaven at that time? While there is truly one God, He reveals Himself to be a plurality from eternity.

 

[Saulball]

Well they don't actually say "JEsus ONLY" ..they just baptise in JESUS name.

That actually has some merit..in the ACTS all baptism was "in the name of JESUS"....

Jesus instructed the disciples to baptise in the name of the Father son and HG....did they read something into that or not?

If so they didn't expound on it in the Gospels....but it was said "let us go on from the doctine of baptisms..."

 

[LynneClomina]

'For I and my father are ONE'

'Hear O Israel, the lord your God is one'

And sorry to say but the UPCI oneness is not an idea. Read your bible and you will see that it is what Jesus said right from the beginning.

I4H, rudeness won't get you far. you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. i do believe the rules state that you cannot post against an "orthodox" view of Christianity, as laid out in the nicene creed. if i may take the liberty, i shall quote:

Rule No. 6 - "Christians Only" Forums

6) Some forums on this website are provided for Christian discussion only as indicated in the Category Title. To exclude certain cults and sects that may consider themselves "Christian", the definition of a "Christian" for the purposes of these forums will be members who adhere to the contents of the Nicene Creed which summarizes the main doctrines held by Evangelical Protestant & Catholic Christianity since the beginning of church history to battle heresy. It summarizes issues like the Trinitarian nature of God, the Divinity of Christ and other basic doctrines of orthodox Christianity that are agreed upon by all major Christian denominations and churches. These are listed below:

Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic* and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

*The word "catholic" refers not to the Roman Catholic Church, but to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"Christians" who do not adhere to the contents of the above creed are not allowed to post in Christian-only forums and use the Christian icon (this will include Mormons/ LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other denominations which are considered as "cults" by evangelical Christianity. If you are LDS or JW you cannot use the Christian icon - you must use the Mormon or Other-Church icon.) They can however post in the other open forums.

 

[LynneClomina]

TRINITY:

ONE being, THREE co-existing personalities. He can think and act as all three at once. they all have different roles. definately not modalism. definately not polytheism. God is God. HE is JESUS/the Son, He is the Father, He is the Holy Ghost. He is all three. all independant of each other, but all ONE GOD.

kind of like a board of directors. there could be ten board members, but it is still one board of directors. they act as one, though they really arent. But the Father/Son/Holy Ghost ARE one. One GOD, three personalities.

ok, God is bigger than the universe right? is that meaning the Father, the Son, or the Holy Ghost? deeet. wrong answer. none of the above. it means GOD. i worship the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Ghost. i worship ONE GOD. i call Him Abba Father, i call Him Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, i call Him Holy Spirit. i call Him God.

they sit on one throne in heaven, yet Jesus sits at the right hand of the father. must be a really wide throne to fit all three!!! seriously, it is a mystery, and i am content with that. it is not either/or, it's both. kinda.

 

[Yitzchak]

It's kind of hard to comprehend, and bordering on Polytheism really (trinity). I mean God in 3 persons...that's like Me, My dad, and my brother saying we are one. The bible never says God in 3 PERSONS...it actually never teaches alot about the Trinity...Paul never dedicated a chapter to it...although he repeats the scriptures I mentioned above "God the Father, thru our Lord Jesus Christ"...I believe God is fully God...but have we overtaught a principle not really discussed....it has come to a point of much contention. Actually Jews see him as ONE God, not the Trinity. I had a jew tell me that once.. Really is it 3 distinct or different persons, or is it 3 manifestations of that ONE true God...I believe they are like a pie slice into 3 pieces...they are part of the same PIE, but have different jobs....The trinity was taught thru a creed, was it hte Nicene creed? I always thought, if God never discusses it much, we shouldn't either.....I don't think God cares if we see him as 1 or 3 in 1 as long as we have a pure heart and Honor the Lord Jesus Christ...I don't think he cares if we baptise in Jesus name or the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost...he's looking at our heart...we've got bigger fish to fry. Thoughts???

I agree that there ae bigger fish to fry and who can actually say that they completely understand the mysteries of the Godhead?? However, with that said, we cannot avoid this issue forever in church. It will sooner or later come up and needto be discussed.

 

[Butterscotch]

THis is I'm4Him, my username keeps stuffing up

In Matthew 28 where it says to be baptized in the name of the father, son and Holy Ghost, it says in the NAME, not the NAMES so there is one name that we must baptize in. And that is Jesus.

Do you really think that Peter would disobey God and say that we must be baptised in Jesus name and not the three? If that is so then we can just throw the bible away. If Peter did lie and disobey about baptism then how can we know that the rest of the bible is true????

I am sorry to have been so harsh in my last post but I am very passionate about what I believe. I dont take back my comments however because I believe whole heartedly that what I said was right.