Could Satan repent?

[LiturgyInDMinor]

I have to respectfully disagree with you but we are starting to run into an Arminian/Calvanist difference and that's not really the topic at hand.

Anyway, could Satan humble himself and repent? I would say so. However, he most certainly won't. He has had countless years to become more callous and wicked.

It would be like Hitler converting to Judaism.

I think I was editing my above post when you were posting this here.


I'll repeat my addition:

I use the term "God's plan" very loosely because honestly it just should be called reality in His Sovereign sense. The world plan implies that if God has a plan, then mankind can have their own plan, but that's not the case. A Sovereign LORD has what is reality, whether we realize it or not. Hope that makes sense.

But honestly it's not about Calvinist vs Arminian is it?
Hitler converting to Judaism was never a possibility because he didn't in reality.
Just as Satan cannot/would not/never ever consider repentance. Why?
The bible ends with Satan not doing it.

 

[SpiritDriven]

But honestly it's not about Calvinist vs Arminian is it?
Hitler converting to Judaism was never a possibility.
Just as Satan cannot/would not/never ever consider repentance. Why?
The bible ends with Satan not doing it.




Philippians 2:9-11:

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
​

and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
​

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
​

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

But honestly it's not about Calvinist vs Arminian is it?
Hitler converting to Judaism was never a possibility.
Just as Satan cannot/would not/never ever consider repentance. Why?
The bible ends with Satan not doing it.




Philippians 2:9-11:

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
​

and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
​

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
​

There is nothing biblical about Satan repenting.
I am sure he will confess, and will confess that Christ is LORD.
Not what the OP is asking. Keyword is repent here.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Lo! New am I making.....all

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Lo! New am I making.....all

Huh?
I think we may be on the same page but yer confusing me man! haha.
You aren't trying to state that even Satan will be made anew are you?

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Very logical, sounds like good theology, does it come from either canonized or non-canonized church texts (such as Septuagint, Apocrypha, possibly books of Moses (not the ones written by him but the books of Jewish Law not included in the Bible or non-canonized church texts)

Although there may be a textual basis for this, I am not aware of it. The bible includes very little (if any) details regarding this matter, which is why no official doctrine can be established. What we can be sure of is that Satan isn't going to repent, and he will try to gather as many followers as he can in the meantime.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Huh?
I think we may be on the same page but yer confusing me man! haha.
You aren't trying to state that even Satan will be made anew are you?

Lo! New am I making ....all.

Me ?

I wonder, if you where standing before God right now on a dias, and he lent forward, and looked you right in the face, and said....

Lo! New am I making.....all ! and there was the sound of Thunder and lighting was flashing...and you noticed out of the corner of your eye the Elders kneeling at the base of the Throne, throwing their Crowns at his feet

Would you trust and believe him to be true to his word ?

Peace

 

[daydreamergurl15]

To answer your question straight, no. There is little to no scripture that speaks about Satan having a chance to repent. But that doesn't help your case because there aren't any scriptures saying he didn't have the chance to repent.

Again looking at the character of Christ we can safely assume that He treated Lucifer the same way He treats us; patiently working to save us until we either turn from the error of our ways or until we move to the point of no return. How can you assume that God has any less love for His angels then He does for us?

I am not trying to win a case or strengthen one, I'm trying to come to the truth and knowledge of God.

We know the Characteristics of God that pertains to us humans. We don't know how He interacts with those who are with Him. But if these living creatures would bow down and proclaim how wonderful He is (as seen in scripture), I can pretty much bet that He is one amazing God. But, I do not know how God deals with angels when they sin. We are not told that Christ died for the forgiveness of angels and that's why I cannot come to the conclusion that angels can repent. Now, God might have another way to deal with them but I don't know.

As for your question: "How can you assume that God has any less love for His angels then He does for us?"
That question is only asked because you are assuming that I believe God love angels less. That's not the case. I didn't make any implications about God's love for angels, I was purely speaking about how does God handle angels when they sin and how do they repent.

We are told in scripture that Christ does not give help to the angels. We are also told that Christ died for the offspring of Abraham so that He can be a propitiation for our sins. I can conclude that Angels are not the offspring of Abraham--because they are not human, and therefore I cannot make the connection, with these verse, that angels can repent like we do. And therefore I cannot make the connection that Satan had the opportunity to repent like we do. MAYBE, God has a different rule for them and HONESTLY only they need to know, we humans don't need that information because it does not apply to us, BUT I can't conclude that they can repent like we do and I'm certainly not saying that God love them less than us.

 

[Stryder06]

I am not trying to win a case or strengthen one, I'm trying to come to the truth and knowledge of God.

We know the Characteristics of God that pertains to us humans. We don't know how He interacts with those who are with Him. But if these living creatures would bow down and proclaim how wonderful He is (as seen in scripture), I can pretty much bet that He is one amazing God. But, I do not know how God deals with angels when they sin. We are not told that Christ died for the forgiveness of angels and that's why I cannot come to the conclusion that angels can repent. Now, God might have another way to deal with them but I don't know.

As for your question: "How can you assume that God has any less love for His angels then He does for us?"
That question is only asked because you are assuming that I believe God love angels less. That's not the case. I didn't make any implications about God's love for angels, I was purely speaking about how does God handle angels when they sin and how do they repent.

We are told in scripture that Christ does not give help to the angels. We are also told that Christ died for the offspring of Abraham so that He can be a propitiation for our sins. I can conclude that Angels are not the offspring of Abraham--because they are not human, and therefore I cannot make the connection, with these verse, that angels can repent like we do. And therefore I cannot make the connection that Satan had the opportunity to repent like we do. MAYBE, God has a different rule for them and HONESTLY only they need to know, we humans don't because it does not apply to us, BUT I can't conclude that they can repent like we do and I'm certainly not saying that God love them less than us.

I see where you're coming from. The way I see it, God says that He is the same yesterday today and forever more. That He does not change. Keeping this in mind, I simply apply that to His relationship with His angels. As you've said, God has got to be Someone AWESOME for His angels to go flying around saying holy all day long.

It is correct that Christ's sacrifice was for humans exclusively. I wouldn't want that to be understood any other way. What I am saying though is that sometime before the fall of man, before Lucifer went into all out rebellion, that Christ offered him a chance to repent. Remember that repentance is simply a change of heart, a decision to turn from one path and walk in the right one.

Lucifer didn't just come out and start hating God, and Christ didn't just sit around waiting for him to explode. Just as He speaks to us to keep us from doing wrong before we do it, I believe He did the same with Lucifer. However, once Lucifer decided to rebel and wanted no parts of God's government, He and his sympathizers were cast out. Just as God will only take so much from us He only took so much from Lucifer before he had to choose to obey or be cast out.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Every Knee shall Bow, every tounge will confess Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father....

Dont even think about implying any insufficency in Christ....

Now there is a good title for a thread....The Sufficency of Christ!

I absolutely believe that this passage is speaking of the ending of days in Phil 2:11, because if you want to see people deny that Jesus is Lord, go and read other religious text books.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I see where you're coming from. The way I see it, God says that He is the same yesterday today and forever more. That He does not change. Keeping this in mind, I simply apply that to His relationship with His angels. As you've said, God has got to be Someone AWESOME for His angels to go flying around saying holy all day long.

It is correct that Christ's sacrifice was for humans exclusively. I wouldn't want that to be understood any other way. What I am saying though is that sometime before the fall of man, before Lucifer went into all out rebellion, that Christ offered him a chance to repent. Remember that repentance is simply a change of heart, a decision to turn from one path and walk in the right one.

Lucifer didn't just come out and start hating God, and Christ didn't just sit around waiting for him to explode. Just as He speaks to us to keep us from doing wrong before we do it, I believe He did the same with Lucifer. However, once Lucifer decided to rebel and wanted no parts of God's government, He and his sympathizers were cast out. Just as God will only take so much from us He only took so much from Lucifer before he had to choose to obey or be cast out.

I got ya.

I guess all we can ever do is conjecture.
Man, I can't wait to be in Heaven where I can see the fullness of God forever. I want to be with those creatures proclaiming the greatness of God.

 

[rcorlew]

OK, this thread has definatley gone well, much better than I thought in fact.

So here is another good question I will pose if you will.

If Satan is proud of his own works then humility must be a key characteristic of God as He was humble enough to be hung on a tree and become a curse for us.

Since Satan is the exact opposite of God much like darkness is the opposite of light, is then pride which led to the fall of Satan and has removed from his heart the concept of repentance a sign that repentance has not been in full?

Is pride the opposite of repentance?

 

[SpiritDriven]

Many of you people suffer from Religiouse programing......

Unfortunatley Christianity in many aspects has become a Cult, and one thing all Cults have in common is that they....program....Cult members in what to believe.

God created Satan to be a Liar and a Murdurer from the begining....he is a tool of God.

In the Fullness of time God will remake Satan Anew....in Newness of Mind and Spirit.

Christ died for all creation....everything out there in the Stars as well, but he came to die here, on this planet, because we where the ones made in Gods image.

We might be on the outer fringes of the Galaxy....not at the powefull hub, not even in the suburbs of the mid Galaxy, we may well be in the Slums of the outer Rim, that makes us the Nazerath of the Milky way.

The Moral and Political hub of the Milky way, the Future rulers of the Universe enduring boot camp.....

Scripture is quite specific about us reigning with Christ in the Celestials...Lord of Lords, King of Kings !!!!!!!!

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Many of you people suffer from Religiouse programing......

Unfortunatley Christianity in many aspects has become a Cult, and one thing all Cults have in common is that they....program....Cult members in what to believe.

God created Satan to be a Liar and a Murdurer from the begining....he is a tool of God.

In the Fullness of time God will remake Satan Anew....in Newness of Mind and Spirit.

Christ died for all creation....everything out there in the Stars as well, but he came to die here, on this planet, because we where the ones made in Gods image.

We might be on the outer fringes of the Galaxy....not at the powefull hub, not even in the suburbs of the mid Galaxy, we may well be in the Slums of the outer Rim, that makes us the Nazerath of the Milky way.

The Moral and Political hub of the Milky way, the Future rulers of the Universe enduring boot camp.....

Scripture is quite specific about us reigning with Christ in the Celestials...Lord of Lords, King of Kings !!!!!!!!

Show us in scripture that Christ died for ALL OF CREATION....I would love to see where it says that He died for the stars too??? I would also love to know why in the world did the stars needed Jesus to shed His blood? I was unaware that they sinned against God.

If I am not mistaken, it says that Christ give no aids to the angels but died for the offspring of Abraham (Heb 2:16)...But if you know something we don't, please show us in scripture.

 

[Stryder06]

Many of you people suffer from Religiouse programing......

Unfortunatley Christianity in many aspects has become a Cult, and one thing all Cults have in common is that they....program....Cult members in what to believe.

God created Satan to be a Liar and a Murdurer from the begining....he is a tool of God.

In the Fullness of time God will remake Satan Anew....in Newness of Mind and Spirit.

Christ died for all creation....everything out there in the Stars as well, but he came to die here, on this planet, because we where the ones made in Gods image.

We might be on the outer fringes of the Galaxy....not at the powefull hub, not even in the suburbs of the mid Galaxy, we may well be in the Slums of the outer Rim, that makes us the Nazerath of the Milky way.

The Moral and Political hub of the Milky way, the Future rulers of the Universe enduring boot camp.....

Scripture is quite specific about us reigning with Christ in the Celestials...Lord of Lords, King of Kings !!!!!!!!

(1) The sacrifice was only necessary for the sinner.

(2) Satan will not be remade in newness of anything.

(3) Satan as not a tool of God created to do wicked. If that's true then God is a liar.

 

[SpiritDriven]

I repeat you people suffer from Religiouse programing.

It is out of the mouth of the most High that both Good and Evil goes forth....

You cannot take away from the Sovereign Power and Will of God Full stop !

Only the Potter has right over the Clay.....Satan was created by God to be exactly who he is....

All the Creation itself is subject to futility....including you people.

 

[SpiritDriven]

Or in other words....

Lo! New am I making all....

I know Religion teaches that God will not make all things new....

That dont change nothing...

 

[rcorlew]

I repeat you people suffer from Religiouse programing.

It is out of the mouth of the most High that both Good and Evil goes forth....

You cannot take away from the Sovereign Power and Will of God Full stop !

Only the Potter has right over the Clay.....Satan was created by God to be exactly who he is....

All the Creation itself is subject to futility....including you people.

Does not some pottery end up broken?

If we are futile, why did Christ die; no we are more than futile, we are more than physical beings, we are immortal souls who bear the fruits of our lives for eternity, that is why Christ died!

 

[catzrfluffy]

If Satan is proud of his own works then humility must be a key characteristic of God

I don't think God can be proud, being God, anything He said about Himself would be true. But He took on humility, that's what makes it so amazing:

"Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)

Is pride the opposite of repentance?

Humility does come with repentance, and enables us to see ourselves in the true light of God's Word. There's an interesting point in the commentary on 1 Timothy 3:6, "He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.", on the phrase used for pride in the Greek:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
6. not a novice-one just converted. This proves the Church of Ephesus was lifted up with pride-Greek, literally, "wrapt in smoke," so that, inflated with self-conceit and exaggerated ideas of his own importance, he cannot see himself or others in the true light (1Ti 6:4; 2Ti 3:4).

I'd say pride may hinder us from seeing our sin and repenting of it, but it is a sin in itself, and the opposite of repentance is still unrepentance.

 

[max1120]

No.
Hebrews 2:14-18

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death HE MIGHT DESTROY the ONE who has the POWER OF DEATH, that is, THE DEVIL, and DELIVER all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that He helps but He helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore He had to be made like His brothers in every respect, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because He Himself has suffered when tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.
​

I wouldn't even know how Satan would go about repenting. Christ's blood would not atone for his sins so I'm not sure how that would even be possible. But not only that, but Satan is angry--Hell was prepared specifically for him and his angels, I'm not sure if he could repent, even if he wanted to, so he goes on casting a war between those who keep the commandment of God.

The books of the bible were written by mortals for mortals. The information in them pertains to mortals so why would god even think it necessary for you to know what conditions he may or may not have set up for the angles including Lucifer. Also you speak of the war in heaven. You may recall that Lucifer led a band of 1/3 the angles in heaven in an attempt to sieze the throne from god and rule in his place. You do know that Lucifer prior to this point was second only to god himeslf in heaven. He was the head angle if you will. He was with god throughout creation and was intimately aware of the existence, nature and powers of god. So given this intimate knowledge of god and the power and intellect possed by Lucifer and his knowledge of the consequences of attempting to seize the throne and failing, why did he do it? Don't just say "pride" that is insufficient. Pride alone would not lead one to do something they knew was near suicidal. If Lucifer was intimately aware of gods "all knowing all powerful" existence he would not logically believe himself to be able to defeat him. He would be aware that god would have the upper hand that he was doomed. I have often theorized that Lucifer must of discovered some vunerability known only to him and this vunerability of god's gave him reason to believe he could defeat god in a contest. It must have been quite convincing also since his discovery was sufficient to convince at least 1/3 of the angles to follow Lucifer.

Also let us examine the meaning of Lucifer's name for a moment. It translates to "light bearer". In literary terms light always been associated with knowledge and in some circles "secert or hidden knowledge". Perhaps Lucifer discoved this "knowledge" and attemted to defeat god and sieze his throne in heaven.

Also what exactly was this "war" in heaven? Was it a actual physical contest with casaulties and distruction of property? We do not know much of the facts but this should be expected. I doubt that if what I suggest be true god would want to make mortal man aware of such things.