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Could Hell be like a sanitorium

dms1972

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The smoke of their torment does not mean they will live forever. If you burn something, the smoke can continue long after the thing is dead. Their torment will continue until the second death at the end of the Millennium.

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

The angels have all eaten from the tree of life and will live forever. This is why hell was created. It is their eternal prison since they cannot die. Man has never eaten from the tree of life. Thus, the second death means just that.

Some theologians (eg. Bloesch who I mentioned at the start of the thread) say that fire is a symbol of God. He says its a purifying fire but those in hell always resist it and so it is tormenting.

He says the punishments in hell are remedial and curative in the sense that they would cure if only they were not resisted.
 
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zoidar

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I was reading Donald Bloesch's The Last Things and he talks about various views on hell. He mentioned that he thought Hell could be a kind of sanitorium for incurable souls, those who would not let God do anything more for them. Bloesch himself thought people in hell were not separated from the love of God, but that they experienced His love differently.

Did medieval artists misrepresent Hell when it depicted the damned being tormented by demons? A question I would ask is how does that sort of hell glorify God?

Thinking further on it I began to wonder could there even be angels assigned to manage hell and keep order? Just some thoughts.

I'm sure the medieval artists had it wrong, about demons torturing the damned. The demons have their punishment in hell. I see hell as more of a separation from God, a place without God, an outer darkness, so no I don't see any angels running it.

I do hope that annihilation is true, that all evil will be annihilated in the end. It's hard for me to accept that God will leave an evil, tainted spot like hell, in His new universe for an eternity.
 
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Acts29

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Some theologians (eg. Bloesch who I mentioned at the start of the thread) say that fire is a symbol of God. He says its a purifying fire but those in hell always resist it and so it is tormenting.

He says the punishments in hell are remedial and curative in the sense that they would cure if only they were not resisted.

I haven't read anything from Bloesch so I can't really comment there. I would seek a clarification. Many confuse Hades with hell. They are quite different. Hades is the resting place of the souls of the dead until rapture/resurrection or judgment. Some in Hades can repent, as Jude describes from Enoch.

Hell is actually the lake of fire from which no one ever returns. After the souls of men are judged at the GWTJ, the wicked are cast into the lake of fire. Then, Death and Hades are cast into the lake of fire. Thus, no one still alive at that point will ever see death again.
 
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dms1972

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I'm sure the medieval artists had it wrong, about demons torturing the damned. The demons have their punishment in hell. I see hell as more of a separation from God, a place without God, an outer darkness, so no I don't see any angels running it.

I do hope that annihilation is true, that all evil will be annihilated in the end. It's hard for me to accept that God will leave an evil, tainted spot like hell, in His new universe for an eternity.


Reading Bloesch, its this matter about separation from God he questions. He doesn't understand it like that.

"The fire of hell is not, however, outside the compass of God's love. This insight was not lost to the church fathers. According to Issac the Syrian:​

"The sorrow which takes hold of the heart which has sinned against love, is more piercing that any other pain. It is not right to say that sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God...But love acts in two different ways, as suffering in the reproved, and as joy in the blessed."
Bloesch says this note was also captured by Dante, who in his Divine Comedy, inscribed over the gates of hell that it too was created by love.

"One reason why hell has been discounted in academic circles and also in the popular imagination, is that for too many centuries it was depicted as a place of torture, where God wreaks havoc on those whom he has consigned to damnation. Cyprian's view of hell came to prevail over Origen's who depicted hell in medicinal terms.​

Its difficult to tell sometimes whether Bloesch is discussing hell in a broader sense which would include this life, for instance when he talks of being able to hope for those in hell, and the possiblity of them leaving it.

"Hell is outside the bliss and rapture of the kingdom, but not outside the rule of kingdom. It is not outside the sphere of God's sovereign love. Those in hell are outside the body of Christ, the holy community, but they remain under the rule of Christ. The are not in Christ, but with Christ, or better still, Christ is with them. God's steadfast love encompases even those who transgress God's law. (Psalm 89:30-33)


 
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BobRyan

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I was reading Donald Bloesch's The Last Things and he talks about various views on hell. He mentioned that he thought Hell could be a kind of sanitorium for incurable souls, those who would not let God do anything more for them. Bloesch himself thought people in hell were not separated from the love of God, but that they experienced His love differently.

Did medieval artists misrepresent Hell when it depicted the damned being tormented by demons? A question I would ask is how does that sort of hell glorify God?

Thinking further on it I began to wonder could there even be angels assigned to manage hell and keep order? Just some thoughts.

Hell is the Lake of fire - second death in Rev 20. There are only two deaths -- the first one that all die - and the second one - lake of fire, called fiery hell, that only the wicked will suffer.
 
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dms1972

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Hell is the Lake of fire - second death in Rev 20. There are only two deaths -- the first one that all die - and the second one - lake of fire, called fiery hell, that only the wicked will suffer.

Thats not under dispute, I am trying to understand what the lake of fire means. Bloesch is discussing in his book the meaning of hell. I should maybe have made that clearer - I have edited my OP now to do so.
 
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timothyu

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. Can you say any more on it?
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Rev 21:1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
5Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”
 
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BobRyan

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Thats not under dispute, I am trying to understand what the lake of fire means. Bloesch is discussing in his book the meaning of hell. I should maybe have made that clearer - I have edited my OP now to do so.

Ok so -- "lake of fire" is pretty descriptive in its name but its context is even more descriptive --

other writers call it fiery hell - but John calls is "Lake of fire"

It takes place "in the presence" of the Lamb AND of "his holy ones" - the holy angels , the saints who are with the Lamb wherever He goes - etc.

Rev 14:9 “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Rev 20:
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Jude 1
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

2 Pet 2:
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly

Matt 25:
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Did medieval artists misrepresent Hell when it depicted the damned being tormented by demons? A question I would ask is how does that sort of hell glorify God?

It would only glorify God if it was deemed rational, appropriate for the deed done, and just -- as opposed to simply monstrous.

degrees of punishment appropriate to knowledge of the person and deeds done.

Luke 12:
45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!


Matt 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in (fiery) hell
 
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Amittai

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It's noticeable that those who believe in purgatory believe in hell as well. I think it productive to ponder what kinds of cultivated moral traits head some people to what is not best. Especially gravely: if they have led others astray (the crown they shall be crowned with).

The (self-unforgiving) blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to convince those in one's spiritual care that there is not (since Ascension) Another Comforter; this is to my mind connected with the sadly many desolating abominations in the Temple (= Christ's body). (None of what I've stated precludes other, bigger meanings additionally BTW.)
 
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