Could cars reproduce?

Rivga said:

Biological Evolution is gradual change in the characteristics of a population of animals or plants over successive generations:

Click to expand...

Oh and additionally aging fail the definition of Biological Evolution too, successive generations, being the thing it fails on.

Rivga said:

Ah right I see, your confused. The English language is not precise and either you are purposely miss using the definition of evolution or miss using it be accident.

Click to expand...

indeed english isnt my native so be aware that i will may not understand some words here and there in general. now, if we both agree that a car can add small changes over time why it cant change into a truck for instance?

xianghua said:

indeed english isnt my native so be aware that i will may not understand some words here and there in general. now, if we both agree that a car can add small changes over time why it cant change into a truck for instance?

Click to expand...

Again the issue is that you are committing what is referred to in logic as a equivocation fallacy:
"In logic, equivocation is an informal fallacy resulting from the use of a particular word/expression in multiple senses throughout an argument leading to a false conclusion."

You are miss using the word evolution, the word evolution in biological science has a specific meaning:

It includes the words animals and plants (or both together as life) and includes the words generations.
In scientific journals they will carefully define words like evolution.

You are using a much wide definition of the word evolution:
"the gradual development of something"


But I feel that you are being purposefully miss leading, as I have told you about your mistake a few times now.

Rivga said:

Again the issue is that you are committing what is referred to in logic as a equivocation fallacy:
"In logic, equivocation is an informal fallacy resulting from the use of a particular word/expression in multiple senses throughout an argument leading to a false conclusion."

Click to expand...

That is this poster's M.O., his speciality.

FrumiousBandersnatch said:

That is this poster's M.O., his speciality.

Click to expand...

You know the worst thing about this is that, it is not aimed at us, as he knows that any atheist is going to see straight through this crap.

This is aimed at his fellow theists, in order to trick them with what is a very cheap tactic. He is essentially insulting the intelligence of fellow believers, the lack of respect for them is amazing.

Rivga said:

You are using a much wide definition of the word evolution:
"the gradual development of something"
.

Click to expand...

sure. so a car can change over time or not?

xianghua said:

sure. so a car can change over time or not?

Click to expand...

What do you mean, "sure?" You are talking about one kind of "evolution" and we are talking about an entirely different kind. Why is that a "sure" thing?

xianghua said:

sure. so a car can change over time or not?

Click to expand...

Not biologically it can't,

xianghua said:

sure. so a car can change over time or not?

Click to expand...

Ascension is reserved for rare individuals favoured by God himself
Donald Trump has ascended to the position of President of the USA
Therefore Donald Trump is favoured by God.

So Xianghua, true of false Ascension is reserved for those favoured by God?

Kenny'sID said:

Bungle_Bear wanted me to point to someone who believed it,so here ya' go.

Click to expand...

I see nothing in Rivga's post to indicate that "billions of designs happened by chance without design". Not even close to saying that.

Bungle_Bear said:

I see nothing in Rivga's post to indicate that "billions of designs happened by chance without design". Not even close to saying that.

Click to expand...

I think you didn't understand the post.

Jjmcubbin said:

In terms of evolution? Yes. That's how new species are formed.

Click to expand...

So you are saying that the car evolves into a truck?
Did you not read the definition of evolution I posted? Evolution takes place over generations.
If the same car turned into a truck, that would be development, and not evolution. Like a baby turning into a teenager.
And what is up with your obsession over machines being the same as living things?

Kenny'sID said:

I think you didn't understand the post.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't speak creationist. Words seem to have different meanings for you guys.

Jjmcubbin said:

So you are saying that the car evolves into a truck?
Did you not read the definition of evolution I posted? Evolution takes place over generations.
If the same car turned into a truck, that would be development, and not evolution. Like a baby turning into a teenager.
And what is up with your obsession over machines being the same as living things?

Click to expand...

fine. so if we had a self replicating car with animal traits it can evolve into an airplane over generations?

xianghua said:

fine. so if we had a self replicating car with animal traits it can evolve into an airplane over generations?

Click to expand...

IF it is subject to the same mutational and phylogenic processes that other life is and...
IF it passes those traits on to it's descendants and...
IF there is an adaptational advantage to flying and...
IF enough time passes to enable those environmental pressures to naturally select for that sort of mutational path to occur...

Then yes, it's possible.

On the other hand, cars do not reproduce, so the question is moot.

(Credit goes to @majj27 for the useful copy-pasta)

xianghua said:

fine. so if we had a self replicating car with animal traits it can evolve into an airplane over generations?

Click to expand...

No. Cars and aircraft are different genera.

xianghua said:

first : you didnt show yet that animal can evolve into a different animal.

second: cars can evolve as we can see in this image:

and after a period of time we will get this:

so what do you know? cars can evolve after all. now imagine what will happen in millions of years...


(images from 30th anniversary of the F40 - Ferrari.com

and Ferrari f 40 pictures. Photo 3.)

Click to expand...

If by "evolve" you mean "gather dust", then sure.

zelosravioli said:

"Each new generation of a species presents a range of variant phenotypes to the environment for selection"

What you are seeing is adaptation - built in adaptation.

Click to expand...

That is what evolution is.
The accumulation of small "adaptions" over generations.

The closer we get to creating robotic machines, the closer we are to seeing how incredibly complex and difficult this task of design is. This kind of technology could only come from purposeful design and from a thinking and conscious mind.

Click to expand...

Mechanical devices and organic living things that reproduce with variation and which compete with peers over limited resources, are not the same thing.

Read the OP.

Note that most, if not all cars now have computer controls that adjust everything from air, fuel, pressure, power, according to speed, temperature, economy..etc many technologies are self fixing adjusting, and soon, like the OP indicates self producing, as in self 3d printing/replicating. This all isn't being invented and designed without minds being involved.

Click to expand...

This all also aren't living creatures that reproduce with variation and which are in competition with peers over limited resources.

They are not analogous in any way.

zelosravioli said:

Even If humans were born with watches on their arms, Ipod players on their ears, and functional video screens on their stomachs, where we could watch reruns of Bonanza, Darwinists would still say "these evolved there through millions of years of natural selection "

Click to expand...

Meanwhile over here in reality, off course, humans are born naked without any mechanical non-living devices attached to their bodies.

Isn't reality neat? You should join us at some point. Especially if you wish to finally post something on this subject that actually makes sense.

Or you could just call it magic!

Click to expand...

There's nothing "magical" about the observable process of biological reproduction.
Didn't your parents have "the talk" with you about that subject?

You can 'say' things advance in complexity and design purely by chance

Click to expand...

Evolution doesn't work "purely by chance". Natural selection is anything but random.
It is not "random" that the lion ends up eating the slowest member of the pack.

That things can adapt or improve is no more evidence for evolution than it is for design

Click to expand...

Except that it is off course... since the presence for such a mechanism in context of evolution is a necessity, while it is -at best- optional in creationism

- but the fact remains - at the end of the day, all these millions of different creatures have trillions upon trillions of fantastic DESIGN within and throughout all of them

Click to expand...

Actually, living things have an enormous amount of "bad design" problems.
Problems that make perfect sense in context of evolution, while they make no sense at all in context of creationism.

A couple examples are:
- a mouth to small for all our teeth, which is why most people need their wisdom teeth chirurgically removes to avoid hellish pain
- a spine not fit for bipedalism, causing lower backpains in 70% of humans at some point in their life
- a nerve that needs to travel only 2 inches (from back of the brain to the throat), but which takes an enormous detour all the way down into the chest, looping around the aorta, only to go all the way up again to end up 2 inches from where it started. This also is the case in a giraffe....
- ....

I could go on for several pages like that. There's enough of such examples to produce book after book.

Again: all makes perfect sense in context of an evolutionary history. Yet, makes no sense at all in context of some all-powerfull perfectly intelligent god.

So all creatures do indeed have design, nevertheless.

Click to expand...

Natural design. Which is not great, but rather just "good enough" to manage to live till breeding age and reproduce. Remember that without our hi-tech stuff helping us to keep alive, we would essentially divide our life expectancy by a factor of 3.
You'ld be lucky if you reached 40.

Darwinists say that 'the billions of designs happened by chance without design'. But that is a contradiction in terms.

Click to expand...

Not by chance. Evolution isn't random. It has random components, but the process is not random.