Could Bullinger Be Right?

[Elat Alaya]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)

So, who is "HE"?

Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:

"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. Which means just before the announcement, the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.

It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.

Thoughts?

 

[A_Thinker]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)

So, who is "HE"?

Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:

"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. Which means just before the announcement, the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.

It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.

Thoughts?

The Holy Spirit is not neuter. Jesus consistently refers to the Holy Spirit as "He" ...

 

[HARK!]

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[disciple Clint]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)

So, who is "HE"?

Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:

"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. Which means just before the announcement, the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.

It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.

Thoughts?

Some people believe that the Holy Spirit will not be present during the tribulation. This belief is based on a verse which says "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:7). This passage is referring to the Antichrist who will appear during the tribulation. The power and sway he will hold over the world is going to be partly due to the fact that the Holy Spirit will not be restraining evil during that time. However, this does not mean that the Holy Spirit will not be present during the tribulation. Is the Holy Spirit going to be present during the tribulation?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)

So, who is "HE"?

Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:

"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. Which means just before the announcement, the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.

It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.

Thoughts?

The gender of a word in many languages has nothing to do with sex of a person.

[paste:font size="4"]1 Thessalonians 2:13 for ενεργειται — energeitai The genitive της ανομιας — tēs anomias (lawlessness) describes το μυστηριον — to mustērion (note emphatic position of both). This mystery (μυστηριον — mustērion secret, from μυστης — mustēs an initiate, μυεω — mueō to wink or blink) means here the secret purpose of lawlessness already at work, the only instance of this usage in the N.T. where it is used of the kingdom of God (Matthew 13:11 (NAS)
11 Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Matthew 13:11), of God (1 Corinthians 2:1 (NAS)
1 And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">1 Corinthians 2:1) and God‘s will (Ephesians 1:9 (NAS)
9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Ephesians 1:9), of Christ (Ephesians 3:4 (NAS)
4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Ephesians 3:4), of the gospel (Ephesians 6:9 (NAS)
9 And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Ephesians 6:9), of faith (1 Timothy 3:9 (NAS)
9 but holding to the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">1 Timothy 3:9), of godliness (1 Timothy 3:16 (NAS)
16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">1 Timothy 3:16), of the seven stars (Revelation 1:20 (NAS)
20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Revelation 1:20), of the woman (Revelation 17:7 (NAS)
7 And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer;">Revelation 17:7). But this secret will be “revealed” and then we shall understand clearly what Paul‘s meaning is here.

Until he be taken out of the way (εως εκ μεσου γενηται — heōs ek mesou genētai). Usual construction with εως — heōs for the future (aorist middle subjunctive, γενηται — genētai). Note absence of αν — an as often in N.T. and the Κοινε — Koiné‚ Paul uses εως — heōs only here and 1 Corinthians 4:5 (NAS)
5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.
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" tooltipenable="true" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(200, 83, 53); font-weight: bold; cursor: pointer; font-family: Lato, sans-serif; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">1 Corinthians 4:5. When the obstacle is removed then the mystery of lawlessness will be revealed in plain outline.
2 Thessalonians 2 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)

So, who is "HE"?

Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:

"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. Which means just before the announcement, the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.

It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.

Thoughts?

"In the Greek language, there are three genders: masculine, feminine, and neuter. Each noun in Greek has a specific gender and—unlike in English—these genders don’t only apply exclusively to nouns referring to people, but also to nouns that refer to things or animals. Therefore, gender should be viewed as a grammatical attribute of a noun and not necessarily as the sex of a person, animal, or thing."
Your Guide to Gender in Greek Grammar

 

[Davy]

Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known. ....

Thoughts?

That statement of course is false. Not all evangelical Christians have held to a Pre-tribulation Rapture theory, which the reality is that doctrine is not written anywhere in God's Word.

The 'evangelical' tradition by the way simply means the 'preaching of The Gospel'. It is not privy to any one particular Christian denomination.

It is NOT a term privy to churches on Darby's 1830s Pre-trib Rapture theory. (The Christian Church held to a Post-tribulational coming of Christ and gathering of His Church for 1,830 years. Darby in 1830's Great Britain was first to preach a pre-trib theory.)

The one doing the withholding of Satan until it's time for him to be cast out of the heavenly dimension down to this earth is most likely the angel Gabriel with Archangel Michael. In Daniel 10, which is a chapter of events taking place in the heavenly, there is a withholding battle between the angels and the "prince of Persia", that being a label there for Satan.

 

[Clare73]

I'd appreciate a good discussion on this verse.

I'll do my best. . .

See, the masculine word "he" in 2Th 2:7 is intriguing.
This is because the Church is feminine.
The Holy Spirit is neuter, and government is feminine.
All these three are the traditional objects of the Rapture

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." (2Th 2:7 KJV)
So, who is "HE"?
Strangely, the EW Bullinger Companion Bible renders this verse this way:
"For the secret of lawlessness doth already work actively: only now there is one who holds [Satan] fast until he is ejected by Michael out of the midst of the heavenlies." (2Th 2:7 EWB-CB)[

Most interesting. . .in light of Revelation 20:1-3: ". . .saw an angel. . .seized the dragon. . .bound him for a thousand years (symbolic number for church age, which is also the great "tribulation"). . .locked him in the Abyss. . .until the thousand years (church age="tribulation" were ended. . .after that he must be set free for a short period of time."

I suggest that the one who holds him fast is Michael and and his angels (Revelation 7:1-3).

He comments on the same in like manner:

<Start of Quote>
letteth = holds fast. Greek. katecho, as 2Th_2:6. Supply the Ellipsis by "there is one who holds fast", instead of by repeating the verb "will let". But katecho is a transitive verb, and an object must be supplied too. See all the occurances [sic]: 2Th_2:6. If the subject be Satan, the object must be his position in the heavenlies (Eph_6:12), from which he will be ejected by Michael (Rev_12:7-9).
out of the way = out of (Greek. ek) the midst. Compare the same expression in Act_17:33; Act_23:10. 1Co_5:2. 2Co_6:17. Col_2:14.
<End of Quote>

Notice that this is his hypothesis (he says, "If the subject be Satan...").

If we accept this view, 2Th 2:7 would be divorced from the timing of the Rapture. Evangelical Christians have always held that the Rapture precedes the introduction of the antichrist or before he makes himself known.

Don't blame it on Evangelicals!
It is dispensationalists who hold this notion.

Which means just before the announcement,

What announcement? The identity of the man of lawlessness?

the Rapture hits earth. Which in turn suggests that the Church will have a pretty good guess of who it's gonna be. But until now, we're still speculating who this might be. Under this view, the imminence of the Rapture is upheld.
It could also mean that the verse is *NOT* talking about the Rapture, but the personification of Satan or when he incarnates/inhabits/possesses a human body who will become The Antichrist of the Tribulation.[
Thoughts?

Well, yes.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 is about both the rapture and the man of lawlessness. The "our being gathered to him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3) is the rapture.

Paul locates the rapture with the resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) at the second coming trumpet call of God (which Biblically is a summons to judgment), the final judgment (where 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6, day of the Lord, parallells Matthew 24:42-44 and Luke 21:34-36, both referring to Jesus' coming at the final judgment).

Paul locates the resurrection, rapture, second coming and final judgment (which is after the ravages of the tribulation) all at the end of time.
The order presented in authoritative NT teaching is:

end of tribulation = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment
(end church age)

 

[Daniel Marsh]

"taken out of the way" I think does not mean one ceases to exist. It could be God the Father ceasing to restrain the antichrist.

 

[Davy]

Something major that brethren need to consider per God's Word. And I know those on a Pre-trib Rapture theory probably won't grasp this, but should.

The Holy Spirit is not the one doing the 'withholding' of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8.

On top of that, it is also wrongly taught The Holy Spirit is removed from the earth at the end with the taken away idea there. Not true, and God's Word shows us why.

Mark 13:9-11
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
KJV

That is the time of the end, the "great tribulation" time Lord Jesus warned us about, a short period just prior to His return and gathering of His saints.

Now I well know you Pre-trib folks are taught against this, for you-all are wrongly taught that we won't be here on earth for that tribulation, that Jesus raptures the Church prior to that tribulation. But that's not what our Lord Jesus taught in His Word. That instead is what man teaches, for the Pre-trib Rapture theory was first taught in a Christian Church in the 1830's in Great Britain (by John Nelson Darby).

The reality per Lord Jesus there though, is that His Church will go through that tribulation, and... some... of us will be delivered up to give a Witness for Him by The Holy Spirit. And we are not to premeditate what we will say in that hour, but speak what The Holy Spirit gives us to say.

That future event at the end of this world is actually what the Joel 2 prophecy is about which Apostle Peter quoted on Pentecost day in Acts 2. Peter was showing that Pentecost was an 'example' of this future event at the end during the tribulation when The Holy Spirit via the cloven tongue will speak through Christ's servants that are delivered up.