Could anyone tell me if this is true?

juvenissun · Jul 13, 2015

bhsmte said:
How so?

Christianity don't have much to do with poverty.
Most criminals are not Christians.

juvenissun · Jul 13, 2015

bhsmte said:
Why would topics that don't qualify as physics or biology, be included in science class?

If a person wants to study biology and have a career in the same, why would anyone waste their time including something that isn't considered biology? Wouldn't seem to be a prudent way to teach topics.

Now, I would be all for a mandatory religious history class, where students can learn about all the worlds religions, not just Christianity and let them decide which one fits them.

You are attacking and try to ban it again. People with your mindset are the source of the problem.
Because creationists say it is qualified.
Let students to make the choice. If nobody choose the course, then the problem is not a problem any more.

juvenissun · Jul 13, 2015

Givemeareason said:
In other words, fundamentalist christian physics and plain physics? Creationism is not science. And schools have more useful things to teach anyway.

Whatever is the name involved in the debate, then offer both choices. It is an important matter for the schools.

bhsmte · Jul 13, 2015

juvenissun said:
Christianity don't have much to do with poverty.
Most criminals are not Christians.

Most of any group including atheists are not criminals either.

bhsmte · Jul 13, 2015

juvenissun said:
You are attacking and try to ban it again. People with your mindset are the source of the problem.
Because creationists say it is qualified.
Let students to make the choice. If nobody choose the course, then the problem is not a problem any more.

Creationists can say whatever they want.

If they want it in science class, the burden is on them to show it is science.

Givemeareason · Jul 13, 2015

juvenissun said:
Whatever is the name involved in the debate, then offer both choices. It is an important matter for the schools.

What if we started teaching Native American creation stories instead? They were here before us and I have little doubt they have just as much scientific validity. So i wonder if we would even have enough classrooms to teach science after teaching all the creation stories?

2PhiloVoid · Jul 13, 2015

Jan Volkes said:
For the rest of the world yes, imagine if there was no religion is the US, the schools would be teaching things that benefit the students instead of holding them back, the young people of the world would not stand a chance against America, as it is the US is importing brains from all over the world, nearly half the students in American universities are from overseas.
Religion in the US is good news for the rest of the world, while they are dumbing down the rest of the world is moving forward.

IT is so strange for me to hear or see instances where Christianity has stunted someone's intellectual growth. I know it happens, but for some reason, my experience with Christian faith has been just the opposite: I went from being a unintellectual, comic book reading, 'all I want to do is art' kind of guy to one who began to study history, philosophy, the sciences, religions, etc. The Bible was an intellectual catalyst for me.

How strange.

2PhiloVoid

juvenissun · Jul 14, 2015

bhsmte said:
Most of any group including atheists are not criminals either.

Go backwards: Most criminals ARE atheists.

juvenissun · Jul 14, 2015

bhsmte said:
Creationists can say whatever they want.

If they want it in science class, the burden is on them to show it is science.

This is a typical slur which shows speechless on the topic.

juvenissun · Jul 14, 2015

Givemeareason said:
What if we started teaching Native American creation stories instead? They were here before us and I have little doubt they have just as much scientific validity. So i wonder if we would even have enough classrooms to teach science after teaching all the creation stories?

It is a simple demand and supply question. Make a survey on how many students like to see what course be offered, then offer the top choices.

dickyh995 · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
Go backwards: Most criminals ARE atheists.

I find it strange that you're so quick to point out any perceived slur (I say perceived because I cannot understand how asking for evidence for a positive claim or why it's essential to show that creationism is science before it can be taught in a science class are slurs) yet are so quick to make these sorts of baseless assertions. Please show any evidence of the claim you just made regarding MOST criminals being atheists.

Givemeareason · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
It is a simple demand and supply question. Make a survey on how many students like to see what course be offered, then offer the top choices.

Teaching the book of Genesis as an alternative to Science is a really bad idea.

juvenissun · Jul 14, 2015

dickyh995 said:
I find it strange that you're so quick to point out any perceived slur (I say perceived because I cannot understand how asking for evidence for a positive claim or why it's essential to show that creationism is science before it can be taught in a science class are slurs) yet are so quick to make these sorts of baseless assertions. Please show any evidence of the claim you just made regarding MOST criminals being atheists.

You don't believe it, then you can try to find some statistics about it. Many things can be known without actual data. If you do not have that capability, then you life would be very difficult.

juvenissun · Jul 14, 2015

Givemeareason said:
Teaching the book of Genesis as an alternative to Science is a really bad idea.

Nobody says that. You simply do not understand how could creationism be integrated into a science course because you do not know anything about creationism.

If I asked you to list item of content in creationism to be included in a course, how far can you go? Two lines? 5 lines? Are you going to repeat those few lines of creationism content in every chapter or every page of a science textbook? What do you know? God creates everything. Is that it? What else?

You are arguing on something you know very little about.

DogmaHunter · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
What you said is ALL caused by non-creationists.

Is that why the higher-educated and higher-incomes typically are more atheist and thus by extension less fundamentalist / creationist?

Do you know ANY government leader who is a creationist in either US or in Britain? I guess there is none. I think there is none in this world.

Well... there's the guys from ISIS......
Probably leading dudes in Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Pakistan etc as well.

And truth be told, the US surely has creationists / fundies in the senate and probably some governors as well.

But that doesn't really matter.
The point is about the actual workforce.

Stuff like in the OP is going to result in a generation of uneducated people. The US will then by extension loose its leading role in technology etc. Already today, you are starting to lose the technological innovation battle with countries like China.

When you look at phd students in the US, a LOT of them are actually H1B students. You know what those are? Those are not citizens of the US. The H1B is a student visum which allows them to stay in the country to get a doctorate.

Afterwards, they take their knowledge and they go back home.

Plenty of departments in US universities today already can't fill all PHD positions with american students. There simply aren't any. Michio Kaku for example... a physicist. His entire team consists of H1B students. Not because they were the best ones. But because there were no other candidates that were US citizens.

If this trend continues, then within 50 years, to US will no longer be a superpower. It will no longer be a leading nation. Silicon Valley will no longer be the epicenter of technology.

This will hurt your economy, your amount of available jobs, your welfare and your international influence.

This is why proper education is important.

dickyh995 · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
You don't believe it, then you can try to find some statistics about it. Many things can be known without actual data. If you do not have that capability, then you life would be very difficult.

Well, I have to counter and say that my life isn't particularly difficult thanks and I try to only accept that which can be backed by evidence. In the words of the late Christopher Hitchens, "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." If you make a positive claim like, "Most criminals ARE atheists" but have no evidence to back up your claim, it can be instantly dismissed...and it is.

DogmaHunter · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
UK has less (?) religion, so UK is better off? How about Cuba or North Korea? It has NO religion there from the beginning.

North Korea has a state religion called "communism".

Did you know that North Koreans are made to believe that the food aid programs of the UN are a gift from the world because we all worship their dear leader?

China had no religion and it was weak. Now China has every religions, and it becomes much stronger.

No. China had a state religion: communism. A political system that is practically based on the state being rich and the population being poor.

Now, they slowly introduce capitalistic ideas and allow the population to have some more freedoms. Suddenly it does better economically.

Is that really a surprise?

Nobody ever said that "getting rid of religion" is the same as getting rid of all possible problems that can plague a nation or hold it back.

Removing theocratic ideas and replacing them with equally bad communistic or facistic ideas is only going to remove one problem and introduce another.

DogmaHunter · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
US was founded on the base of religion, and she was strong.
US religion became more and more noisy, then she became weaker and weaker.
So, if the US became a creationism nation, then she would become a super strong nation.
Anyway you look at it at anywhere anytime, your logic is wrong.
The more religious, the stronger the nation.

This is really easy to expose as complete nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Importance_of_religion_by_country

Ordered by "religion is important" among the population:

Bangladesh 100% 0%
Niger 100% 0%
Somalia 100% 0%
Romania 99.9% <0.1%
Indonesia 99% 1%
Sri Lanka 99% 1%
Democratic Republic of the Congo 98.5% 1.5%
Malawi 98.5% 1.5%
Morocco 98.5% 1%
Djibouti 98% 1.5%
Egypt 98% 2%
Mauritania 98% 1.5%
Sierra Leone 98% 1.5%
Burundi 97.5% 2.5%
Afghanistan 97% 3%
Guinea 97% 3%
Zambia 97% 3%
Burma 96.5% 3%
Jordan 96.5% 3.5%
Laos 96.5% 2.5%
Pakistan 96.5% 2.5%
Senegal 96.5% 3.5%
Tanzania 96.5% 3.5
Cambodia 96% 3.5%
Comoros 96% 2.5%
Yemen 96% 3.5%

Now, ordered the other way round "religion is not important":

Estonia 16% 78%
Sweden 16.5% 83%
Denmark 18% 80.5%
Czech Republic 20.5% 74.5%
Norway 20.5% 78%
Hong Kong 23% 75.5%
Japan 23.5% 75%
Netherlands 24.5% 75.5%
United Kingdom 26.5% 73%
Finland 28% 70%
France 29.5% 69.5%
Vietnam 29.5% 69.5%
China 31.5% 63.5%
Australia 32% 67.5%
Albania 32.5% 62%
South Korea 32.5% 65.5%
Belarus 33% 57.5%
Belgium 33% 57.5%
New Zealand 33% 66%
Russia 33% 60.5%
Bulgaria 33.5% 62%

Hungary 39% 58.5%

Latvia 39% 58.5%

Germany 40.5% 59%

If you had to choose between the first or the second list, after which you would be forced to go live in a random country from the list you picked.... which list would you choose?

I'll venture a guess and state that you would pick list number 2: the one where religion isn't that important.

Because chances are rather big that by picking the first list, you would end up in a country in which you really really really wouldn't want to live. In fact, looking at the list, I'ld say that it is almost certain that you would end up in such a country.

DogmaHunter · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
You mean the US?
Simple, because the separation of church and state. Most kids are not taught Bible at all.

How can you say that with a straight face when the US is the most religious country of the entire western world?

We in Europe don't have crime rates through the roof like the US does. The first time a lot of people here typically see a bible is when they are like 17 or 18. And most likely it's because a Jehova witness or alike shoves it in their hands somewhere on a street corner.

Meanwhile, almost 50% of the US confirms to have fundamentalistic ideas and believe the bible literally. That number doesn't even cover "theist evolutionists". And by itself, that number is already almost double the amount of people in old europe who confirm to even only have vague religious beliefs.

Clearly, if the problem is that "the bible isn't taught to people" in the US.... if that is the cause of crime, then logic dictates that this problem should be 3 times as big in Europe. But what we see is the complete opposite...

Something in your argument doesn't seem to add up. Can you spot what it is?

And there is no prayer before any government meeting.
Look at the crime rate of Iran. The highest leader of a government should be a religion leader.

Perhaps you should go live in Iran, if you think it's that much better over there.

So, why don't you?

DogmaHunter · Jul 14, 2015

juvenissun said:
Open ALL religious material in public school and let students have their choices.

There aren't enough hours in a day and enough teachers in the world to do that.

This is not hard to do. Student can choose physics with Creationism, or physics with no Creationism. And we will see which class attracts more students.

Perhaps we can also let them choose between "making babies as explained by stork theory" and "making babies as explained by embryology".

I'll take the latter to care for my pregnant other half. You can have the first.

Could anyone tell me if this is true?

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Matt. 16:15-19

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Newbie

Well-Known Member

... and God saw that it was good.

... and God saw that it was good.

Code Monkey

Newbie

Code Monkey

Code Monkey

Code Monkey

Code Monkey

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency