Cosmology

[Halbhh]

Hello, everyone, this is Lambrini. Want to talk about the origin of the universe? The Greek word for the study of the origin of the universe = COSMOLOGY.

There are two basic kinds of cosmology. One is physical cosmology. That is physicists and astronomers talking about how the universe originated. In the Seventies, there was a famous bestseller called "Cosmos" by Princeton astronomy professor Carl Sagan. He became a celebrity because of that book, appeared on the "Tonight Show," etc. I never read that book, did any of you? Well, if any of you did, or if any of you have more recently taken an astronomy course, read an astronomy article, etc, please post some of what you know about physical cosmology here.

The other kind of cosmology is religious cosmology. That is theologians talking about creationism. I personally believe in Adam and Eve, and I am proud of that. But I know one of our TAW members has been posting about a mythological interpretation of Adam and Eve, so if he would like to post some more here on this new thread, that would be of interest to me. Let's debate!

I personally believe Adam and Eve were actual (literal) also. (but this aspect of actual vs parable isn't the central question and significance of these wonderful chapters -- they are about something deeply more profound than mere who-when-where history; they are about life here and now today as we begin to see when we read with a truly open listening)

And I hope people realize God made all the Universe.

And it's so amazing, and vast, and wondrous. We are seeing light from very distant galaxies, even some that has apparently traveled across about 13 billion light years of distance! (!).... See the amazing creation He has made, through telescope images, like the photo of Andromeda Galaxy I've been using lately by my username to the left.

 

[mindlight]

But more precisely, what is the cosmology of the Orthodox Church? I admit that this is a subject that I have never really studied.

I believe your calendar dates the earth at about 8000 years old. That would rule out Big Bang, Abiogenesis and MacroEvolution as explanations ( factually unsupported ones) for our origins. As the vote on Adam and Eve indicates most of you are Young Earth Creationists like myself who believe in a literal historical Adam and Eve.

Also the overwhelming acknowledgment is that God did it which contradicts merely naturalistic explanations and sets the facts we do know in a theological not a godless context.

Regarding how effectively broken biological organisms like ourselves inhabiting an eco system broken by the fall, flood and fiddling of fallen angels can read the book of nature is also a point. None of us have direct experience of the goodness of creation that was lost thousands of years ago so how can any of us explain it to any great degree of certainty.

 

[Halbhh]

I believe your calendar dates the earth at about 8000 years old. That would rule out Big Bang, Abiogenesis and MacroEvolution as explanations ( factually unsupported ones) for our origins. As the vote on Adam and Eve indicates most of you are Young Earth Creationists like myself who believe in a literal historical Adam and Eve.

Also the overwhelming acknowledgment is that God did it which contradicts merely naturalistic explanations and sets the facts we do know in a theological not a godless context.

Regarding how effectively broken biological organisms like ourselves inhabiting an eco system broken by the fall, flood and fiddling of fallen angels can read the book of nature is also a point. None of us have direct experience of the goodness of creation that was lost thousands of years ago so how can any of us explain it to any great degree of certainty.

Just again, let me remind people, there are also believers in a literal Adam and Eve that see the scripture fitting just as well for the Earth being very old, much older than Adam by far, and it appears it's over 4 and 1/2 billion years old.

And this fits perfectly to a literal reading, by realizing time passed during verse 1, an unspecified amount of time, before verse 2. That some unknown amount of time passed during verse 1, as God created the Universe and then Earth -- time passage during this phase -- is just what anyone might expect or think likely that did not have a previous viewpoint to defend. It's even the most straightforward reading of the text.

The scripture could have been revealed to Moses differently (but it was not)... it could have instead been different if God chose and we could imagine a whole different verse 1, not like God did tell Moses, which might read (imagined) "God created the Heavens (Universe) in an instant, like the blink of an eye" if that were the case. But it's not there, not in the text, and we have no reason to add it in or assume it.

 

[Halbhh]

...

Also the overwhelming acknowledgment is that God did it which contradicts merely naturalistic explanations and sets the facts we do know in a theological not a godless context.

I'd agree....unless...

UNLESS GOD CREATED NATURE....

But He did create nature!

All that is.

Every last thing.

Meaning all the laws of nature -- physics, chemistry!

His.

"...and it was very good."

That means that because God created all that is, physics works great. Chemistry works. They are His design, and they are very good.

Therefore, it's clear that any process of nature...is His. If you believe in God as creating all that is.

 

[mindlight]

Just again, let me remind people, there are also believers in a literal Adam and Eve that see the scripture fitting just as well for the Earth being very old, much older than Adam by far, and it appears it's over 4 and 1/2 billion years old.

And this fits perfectly to a literal reading, by realizing time passed during verse 1, an unspecified amount of time, before verse 2. That some unknown amount of time passed during verse 1, as God created the Universe and then Earth -- time passage during this phase -- is just what anyone might expect or think likely that did not have a previous viewpoint to defend. It's even the most straightforward reading of the text.

The scripture could have been revealed to Moses differently (but it was not)... it could have instead been different if God chose and we could imagine a whole different verse 1, not like God did tell Moses, which might read (imagined) "God created the Heavens (Universe) in an instant, like the blink of an eye" if that were the case. But it's not there, not in the text, and we have no reason to add it in or assume it.

But the original Byzantine calendar dates the current year as 7527 Anno Mundi the calendar having originally been computed from the Septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_calendar

 

[mindlight]

I'd agree....unless...

UNLESS GOD CREATED NATURE....

But He did create nature!

All that is.

Every last thing.

Meaning all the laws of nature -- physics, chemistry!

His.

"...and it was very good."

That means that because God created all that is, physics works great. Chemistry works. They are His design, and they are very good.

Therefore, it's clear that any process of nature...is His. If you believe in God as creating all that is.

From my perspective nature is broken and so as with a broken watch what it tells us is very little. God did not design a world with hunters and prey, flesh eating bacteria and viruses our bodies could not cope with. He created a perfect ecosystem with perfect harmony and at that time we also had bodies that had regenerative capacities that do not exist today. What we read in nature is helpful in so far as we can verify it. But modern scientists have gone way beyond that and their explanations are no longer factually based when they talk of origins and remote cosmology. This does not mean that what they say is uninteresting just that we cannot verify what they say beyond a certain point in time and space.

 

[Halbhh]

From my perspective nature is broken and so as with a broken watch what it tells us is very little. God did not design a world with hunters and prey, flesh eating bacteria and viruses our bodies could not cope with. He created a perfect ecosystem with perfect harmony and at that time we also had bodies that had regenerative capacities that do not exist today. What we read in nature is helpful in so far as we can verify it. But modern scientists have gone way beyond that and their explanations are no longer factually based when they talk of origins and remote cosmology. This does not mean that what they say is not uninteresting just that we cannot verify what they say beyond a certain point in time and space.

I agree, but...notice you are describing creatures, not physics itself, nor chemistry, but creatures.

Imagine for a minute that powerful predatory dinosaurs were still around 3000 years ago, before we had modern weapons. Would spears and arrows be able to fight off a pack of Velociraptors? Or their larger cousins? Guard against a Pterodactyl snatching sheep and children? No, and no. God removed them. It appears very much like He removed them, made most types of dinosaurs into compost, very suddenly, with a large asteroid.

One that was very literally just the exactly right size.

Not too small -- if that asteroid had been 30% smaller, most dinosaurs would still be around during the days of the first men.

Not too large -- too many good species, necessary and helpful plants and such, would have been destroyed if the asteroid had been 50% bigger...

No, that asteroid that hit Earth was just precisely the right size.

For our sakes.

And it looks convincingly in layers of rock that it hit about 66 million years ago. In that case, we can then see it means time passed between days of creation. So it makes sense to me that the special days Moses saw in the vision from God were each one spaced apart in time from the next.