Correct View of Limited Atonement?

[CalledOutOne]

How do you spell "whosoever"?

How is the word whosoever relevant?

 

[bsd058]

I love it when people come in here with the theological training of a 1st grader (which is sad, since the person claims to be 67 years old) and talk down to us thinking a word like "whosoever" means the atonement isn't limited to the elect.

I mean, I think that's what he's trying to get at. It's just sad if it is. If it's not, I hope he forgives me for presuming it was.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

AW, either way...I'm not beholden to Calvin's view or the Reformed tradition, at least not in the same way, as the Presby church is and I think that's the difference worth stating. The Particular Baptists who signed the 1689 were high Calvinists (posted short quote here) and I am well within that stream of thought. If someone asks me "what is the correct view of the atonement" I'm not going to look to Calvin, I may consult his writings, but he isn't the standard by which I draw my doctrine.

Brother JM, as much as I respect and appreciate him, John Calvin isn't THE standard by which Presby's draw doctrine either! And although authoritative and valuable, neither are the historical Reformed confessions THE standard. Our standard, brother JM, is one and the same, it is the Protestant rule of faith and practice, otherwise known as Sola Scriptura. The differences between Calvinists, are in interpretation, not THE standard, not the (primary, and only inerrant) SOURCE of our doctrine. So if someone asks me "what is the correct view of atonement", I'll be going to the Scriptures too!

 

[Willie T]

Yep, "whosoever". It's kind of a tough word.... and concept.... to get over, no matter whose name you want to flaunt.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Yep, "whosoever". It's kind of a tough word.... and concept.... to get over, no matter whose name you want to flaunt.

There's nothing tough about it, whosoever believes...and who believes in Christ? Those whom Christ authors and finishes faith in, ie. the elect.

And whosoever does not believe is condemned ALREADY, say's John.

Next...

 

[bsd058]

There's nothing tough about it, whosoever believes...and who believes in Christ? Those whom Christ authors and finishes faith in, ie. the elect.

And whosoever does not believe is condemned ALREADY, say's John.

Next...

I don't know how you don't get tired of answering the same question over and over again. It seems there's no end to the people who think they are the first to argue with Calvinists in this manner.

It's like they've never read a rebuttal.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I don't know how you don't get tired of answering the same question over and over again. It seems there's no end to the people who think they are the first to argue with Calvinists in this manner.

It's like they've never read a rebuttal.

I do sometimes, but onward. I can only think of a couple of non-Calvinists who have really frustrated me...(picture a brick wall) I usually discontinue responding when it gets to that point, after I've exposed their assumptions, answered their objections etc. I can only think of one thread where I played the "last word" game, it's not a goal of mine. If I could just be used by God, to plant seeds, I am confident God can use my foolishness for His glory.

 

[JM]

Brother JM, as much as I respect and appreciate him, John Calvin isn't THE standard by which Presby's draw doctrine either! And although authoritative and valuable, neither are the historical Reformed confessions THE standard. Our standard, brother JM, is one and the same, it is the Protestant rule of faith and practice, otherwise known as Sola Scriptura. The differences between Calvinists, are in interpretation, not THE standard, not the (primary, and only inerrant) SOURCE of our doctrine. So if someone asks me "what is the correct view of atonement", I'll be going to the Scriptures too!

I wish all that were true brother AW, I do.

 

[CalledOutOne]

As a Calvinist, I define whosoever to be anyone, just as the Arminians do. You can replace the word "whosoever" in John 3:16 with "anyone who".

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that "anyone who" believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Even with those words it still doesn't implay that anyone CAN believe, the text says "whosoever believeth". This shows that there are two groups. Those who believe and those who don't. I repeat it does not say that anyone CAN believe. If you say any different then you are inserting your beliefs into the text.

 

[twin1954]

Yep, "whosoever". It's kind of a tough word.... and concept.... to get over, no matter whose name you want to flaunt.

The doctrine of God's sovereign election has never kept one soul out of the Kingdom who wanted in. The simple truth is that all who desire it desire it because of God's sovereign electing love. They come to faith because Christ died for them and accomplished their entire and complete salvation. They belive on Christ because they need and want Him. Those who end up in Hell do so because they neither need or desire Christ. Your whole argument is moot and pointless because it has no basis in fact.