Correct me if I am wrong...

[Silvertusk]

The Trinity seems to the the most confusing point about Christianity.

This is my interpretation of it (and please correct me if I am wrong because I want to be clear on this)

There is only one God. Jesus is the human incarnation of God on earth and the Holy Spirit is Gods power at work on earth.

God is outside of time - So he is able to see himself on earth in the timeline and so able to converse with himself and vice versa (which is what Jesus does in Gesthename) When Jesus was baptised by John, God sent his power to himself down on earth. Effectively we are talking about 2 different people here - 1 100% human and 1 100% God. One in the timeline (Jesus), one outside of time (God). But they are still the same person.

God gives himself some power after being baptised (the Holy Spirit descending) Therefore Jesus, although fully human now has the power of God to perform the miracles that he does.

When Jesus dies, because he is human - he does in fact die. Only because God is outside of time is he able to see himself die and therefore raise himself again when he wants to (3 days later). 40 days later - Jesus then ascends to heaven. Which I presume is back to the same plain of existence that God is in. What happens after that I am no longer clear about. Whether God has now infact created 2 of himself because of the incarnation or whether Jesus becomes his father again I couldn't possibly begin to imagine.

When Pentecost occurs God then sends his power back down to earth to fuel the birth of Christianity.

I am well aware that I may be way way way way of the mark here, but according to the scripture, God is outside of time. On a scientific level we need something in the Infinity to create the universe that we live in. It is only because God is outside of time that there can be two of him. The Holy Spirit is God power being the third entity of the Godhead.

Like the title suggests I would be very greatful to hear anyone's opinion of this interpretation.

Thankyou you in advance

God Bless

Silvertusk.

 

[StAnselm]

Well, I don't think you've got it quite right. Orthodox theology views God as being three distinct persons. Not just three manifestations.

But here's the confusing bit. Jesus, the second person of the trinity, while remaining at all time 100% God, also became (and remains) 100% man.

Effectively we are talking about 2 different people here - 1 100% human and 1 100% God. One in the timeline (Jesus), one outside of time (God). But they are still the same person.

No. If I read you correctly, I think you've got this backward. When the Bible talks about "God" it often means God the Father - it is he who raises Jesus fromt he dead, for example. And so Jesus and the Father are not the same person. Yet Jesus (though one person) is simultaneously 100% human and 100% God. He isn't just a human being endowed with the power of God.

Therefore Jesus, although fully human now has the power of God to perform the miracles that he does.

But your statements are assuming that one can't be fully human and fully God at the same time. Yet Christianity teaches that Jesus is one person in two natures.

Whether God has now infact created 2 of himself because of the incarnation or whether Jesus becomes his father again I couldn't possibly begin to imagine.

No, Jesus is God, and yet is a distinct person to his father!

On a scientific level we need something in the Infinity to create the universe that we live in.

I'm not really sure what that means...

The Trinity seems to the the most confusing point about Christianity.

Quite possibly!!!

Thanks for the post!

 

[Tenorvoice]

To think os the Trinity, you have to use God's math.

This is the one of the ONLY times that this math will work.

The math is 1+1+1=1

God+Jesus+the Holy Spirit=1

 

[revrobor]

God is God and He can fairly well do or be anything or anyone He chooses. Sadly, the "doctrine of the Trinity" is one of those doctrines that man created well after Jesus left this Earth and has since insisted that it is a doctrine one must subscribe to in order to be a "real Christian".

The God I love and have chosen to follow (the Creator of the Universe) is bigger than any doctrine man has conceived and certainly does not restrict Himself to operating within any of those concepts.

The "doctrine of the Trinity" is one of the things those who have placed their faith in doctrines and dogma love to argue about in an effort to be right and bolster their faith.

For me I am going to continue to look to Him for guidance and attempt to allow Him to carry out His plan for my life and not lose any sleep over these doctrinal battles.

 

[AvgJoe]

I would have to agree that the Trinity is one of the most confusing parts of Christianity. My understanding of the Trinity is a bit different than yours, though.

God and Jesus are not 2 manifestations of the same person and the Holy Spirit is not merely a power. The Trinity consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son and the Holy Spirit. Each person is distinct from the other, yet related in essence.

One God (one essence) - three distinct persons / one what & three whos

Each is divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the Godhead. Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.

A decent analogy is time. Is the "past" plus the "present" plus the "future" a total of three times? Nope. It is simply a representation of three distinct aspects of the nature of time: past, present, and future. Likewise, the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are not three separate beings or entities, but three distinct persons in the one nature of the Godhead.

Below is a chart of verses from which the concept of the Trinity is derived.

Called God
Father: Phil 1:2
Son: John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9
Spirit: Acts 5:3-4

Creator
Father: Isaiah 64:8
Son: John 1:3; Col 1: 15-17
Spirit: Job 33:4, 26:13

Resurrects
Father: 1 Thess 1:10
Son: John 2:19, 10:17
Spirit: Romans 8:11

Indwells
Father: 2 Cor 6:16
Son: Col 1:27
Spirit: John 14:17

Everywhere
Father: 1 Kings 8:27
Son: Matt 28:20
Spirit: Psalm 139: 7-10

All Knowing
Father: 1 John 3:20
Son: John 16:30, 21:17
Spirit: 1 Cor 2:10-11

Santifies
Father: 1 Thess 5:23
Son: Heb 2:11
Spirit: 1 Peter 1:2

Life Giver
Father: Gen 2:7; John 5:21
Son: John 1:3, 5:21
Spirit: 2 Cor 3:6,8

Fellowship
Father: 1 John 1:3
Son: 1 Cor 1:9
Spirit: 2 Cor 13:14; Phil 2:1

Eternal
Father: Psalm 90:2
Son: Micah 5:1-2
Spirit: Rom 8:11; Heb 9:14

A Will
Father: Luke 22:42
Son: Luke 22:42
Spirit: 1 Cor 12:11

Speaks
Father: Matt 3:17; Luke 9:25
Son: Luke 5:20, 7:48
Spirit: Acts 8:29, 11:12, 13:2

Loves
Father: John 3:16
Son: Eph 5:25
Spirit: Rom 15:30

Searches the heart
Father: Jer 17:10
Son: Rev 2:23
Spirit: 1 Cor 2:10

We belong to
Father: John 17:9
Son: John 17:6
Spirit: ---

Saviour
Father: 1 Tim 1:1, 2:3, 4:10
Son: 2 Tim 1:10; Titus 1:4, 3:6
Spirit: ---

We serve
Father: Matt 4:10
Son: Col 3:24
Spirit: ---

Believe in
Father: John 14:1
Son: John 14:1
Spirit: ---

Gives joy
Father: ---
Son: John 15:11
Spirit: John 14:7

Judges
Father: John 8:50
Son: John 5:21, 30
Spirit: ---

As we can see, the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at by looking at the whole of scripture, not just a few verses. It is the doctrine that there is only one God, not three, and that the one God exists in three persons: Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Our other difference in belief is about Jesus. My understanding is that Jesus has two natures, a human nature and a divine nature. He is both God and man. Colossians 2:9(NLT) says, "For in Christ the fullness of God lives in a human body," Jesus received His human nature from Mary and He received His divine nature through God the Holy Spirit, from which He was conceived. Therefore, Jesus is both God and man.

 

[AvgJoe]

I think that the idea of Trinity is superfluous. It does not help anything, it may rather make many things in Bible less clear.

The Trinity is a bit much?

The doctrine of the Trinity cuts right to the core of the very constituent nature of God.

If the doctrine of the Trinity is not true, then Jesus Christ is not Who He said He was, namely, God the Savior. If Jesus is not God the Saviour, then He is just a man. And if He is just a man, then He did not render sufficient satisfaction for our sins by virtue of His death on the cross and victorious resurrection three days later. Indeed, as Paul affirms, “if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins” (1 Cor 15:17). If the Trinity is not true, then Christ is not God the Son resurrected and, plain and simple, Christians worldwide are worshipping a dead man. So how important is the Trinity? I’d say it doesn’t get more important than this!

2. SON. The first creation God made was His Son Jesus Christ (or Logos). He made Jesus as a spiritual being that has its beginning and a prospect of everlasting life. Jesus was not created beyond time and place like God, he was created in time and into a spiritual "place" which is called heavens in the Bible.

Please give the Scripture that says that Jesus was created.

Colossians 1:15-14(NLT): Christ Is Supreme
15) Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. 16) Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see--kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him. 17) He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

If Jesus was created, He would not have existed before anything was created.

 

[daveleau]

In looking at Scripture, you cannot base a theology on one verse while ignoring others. John 1 tells us that Christ was here in the beginning before Creation. Many other Scriptures tell us that He is God and that He was not created. The firstborn metaphor is a allegorical connection to the Jewish and Greek ideology of the rights of the first born.

 

[Forest]

[bible]john 17:5[/bible]

 

[johnd]

Many fine answers given here. I would add:

While it is not necessary to know all the ins and outs of the nature of God to be saved (take the John 3:16-18 type passages for example) it is necessary to believe in the genuine Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 11:4, Galatians 1:8-9). As these and other passages like Matthew 24:24 indicate many counterfeit Christs have and will arise. The biblical discovery of the triune nature of God is a major way to distinguish the genuine from the counterfeits.

The example of time offered by AvgJoe was good in that it shows the non-linear aspect the number of persons in the Godhead has on the number of Gods there are. Even if there were a million persons in the Godhead there would only be one God. But the example of time could be used by Sabellianists to promote Modalism. Past, present, future are three modes of the same 'ever present' time. I am not being critical, just cautionary.

The same is true about the 1 X 1 X 1 attempt to explain the Trinity. Hold up one finger and physicalize the example as you repeat "1 X 1 X 1." It's the same finger. Modalists would be proud.

The best example I have found is the compound relationship entity be it a corporation or a family. I am not a business man and I prefer the family example. But a corporation or any compound relationship entity will work.

The number of persons in a family has no bearing on the number of families. For example, I was raised in a family of seven. That does not mean my family was seven families.

There is actually one way that the number of persons in a family has a bearing of that family; there must be two or more for there to even be a family at all. There is no such thing as a family of one. Why? Because "family" is a compound relationship entity: a unity of plurality.

So is God. The Hebrew word for God is a plural word "elohim."

Also, under the heading of Savior in your chart, AvgJoe, I believe that is best left pointing to Jesus (which is why the blank exists next to "Spirit" ):

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (Jehovah), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD (Jehovah); and beside me there is no saviour.

Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; 4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father AND the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (bear in mind Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) thus only Jesus will "appear")

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Aditionally, this is a very critical proof text to Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus is in fact Jehovah.

Not picking on you Joe, nor am I trying to start a discertational discourse. Just tryuing to help.