Coronavirus pandemic: God’s punishment or meaningless bad luck?

Akita Suggagaki

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Just nature. We take the good with the bad.
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Michie

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thecolorsblend

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Gnarwhal

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The current epidemic has exposed how ubiquitous an error in our times is the denial that God is in charge of every last detail.

Coronavirus pandemic: God’s punishment or meaningless bad luck?

I’ve been fairly well convinced that this is punishment for at least a couple offenses. Namely Pope Francis introducing idolatry by placing pachamamas on the altars at St. Peter’s and St. Maria de Transpontina, and allowing the other rituals to desecrate the sacred space of the Vatican.

Also the Pope’s abandoning the Chinese faithful by capitulating to the communists and their “Patriotic Catholic Church”. I mean, it seems obvious when you see that China and Italy are the two hardest hit nations. They’re inextricably linked there.
 
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Michie

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I’ve been fairly well convinced that this is punishment for at least a couple offenses. Namely Pope Francis introducing idolatry by placing pachamamas on the altars at St. Peter’s and St. Maria de Transpontina, and allowing the other rituals to desecrate the sacred space of the Vatican.

Also the Pope’s abandoning the Chinese faithful by capitulating to the communists and their “Patriotic Catholic Church”. I mean, it seems obvious when you see that China and Italy are the two hardest hit nations. They’re inextricably linked there.
I have been reading a lot about that ‘China Deal’ weekly and the most charitable thing I can muster up is shameful. Absolutely shameful.
 
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LoG

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I don't know if it is a punishment for anything specific other than at the very least not following the clean and unclean laws in the OT. I realize the churches preach that we are exempt from them but considering the plagues we have experienced through the past 2000 years, I would wonder about that.

Exodus 15:26
He said, "If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you."
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Well that’s not the point of the article. At all. Even Jesus reminded us that punishment justly falls on all of us.
"The current epidemic has exposed how ubiquitous an error in our times is the denial that God is in charge of every last detail of the universe and that He wills or permits all things for the punishment and reformation of sinners and for the merit of the just."

For the merit of the Just? How so?
 
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Michie

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Jesus reminds us that punishment justly falls on all of us, and that we must do penance for our sins Why coronavirus is a punishment from God that should lead to repentance and the sins of others. The evils of this world are an invitation to reject moral evil; purify our hearts; and return to Him to whom we must, in any case, render an account at the end of our days.

The article goes on to say that the ubiquitous error of our times is to deny that God is in charge of every last detail the universe or permits these things to happen for the reformation of sinners....as far as the merit of the just, you’d have to ask the author what he means by that. Perfect suffering?
 
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Michie

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How about in your own words as it pertains to Coronavirus.
I don’t disagree with the article. While I think we use the common sense that God gave us, we must acknowledge the role of God and His control in all of this and watch out for others that need help. Isn’t merit the fruits of the Spirit? Not sure what you are looking for here. I posted the article. I did not write it. :scratch: It simply shows the changing attitudes in the early church till now.
 
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Monna

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A lot of what we call "God's judgement" is really the consequences of our own foolhardiness. Similar viral epidemics have crossed from animals to mankind before, especially within the context of the existence and mis-management of wildlife markets for human consumption, as found in Wuhan. There is a strong suspicion that this pandemic started from such a market. These markets should have been shut down years ago, because of previous epidemics. The pandemic probably wouldn't have happened at all if such markets were closed, not only legally but in practice. Indications are that this time, belatedly, China will close them.

If you play with fire, the chances are high that you'll get burnt. Don't blame it on God.

Think laterally also: When do people most often frequently call on God for help? ... in times of calamity, chaos, disease, etc. God didn't cause this pandemic, but He is with us in it, and His gracious arms are wide open for all who sincerely turn to Him. "Even if I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I won't be afraid. His rod and staff will comfort me."

Read John 9. The disciples (like you and me) asked Jesus if the man they were looking at was born blind because of his own sin, or that of his parents. (Or put in another way - because of their sin God was punishing him. And we, like the disciples, seem to love telling the world that everything that seems "bad" is God's punishment on sinful people - [which group doesn't include me of course]). Jesus replied "neither this man nor his parents' sins were the cause." Instead, the blind man was God's miracle waiting to happen. He was born blind for the glory of God! Then Jesus proved it. Change your perspective and you'll see that in this pandemic there is a strong invitation from God, to get with it, and live by His principles and practices. And save a lot of lives in the future.
 
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Bob Crowley

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I believe God can use natural disasters as means of judgment. But I'm a bit cynical about this at the same time.

If we're going to follow the writer's judgment, then we'd have to accept that the Black Death was God's judgement on the people living in Medieval Asia and Europe.

There's a synopis here, which included the following paragraphs -

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/coronavirus-pandemic-god’s-punishment-or-meaningless-bad-luck.8153192/

The Black Death was a devastating global epidemic of bubonic plague that struck Europe and Asia in the mid-1300s. The plague arrived in Europe in October 1347, when 12 ships from the Black Sea docked at the Sicilian port of Messina. People gathered on the docks were met with a horrifying surprise: Most sailors aboard the ships were dead, and those still alive were gravely ill and covered in black boils that oozed blood and pus. Sicilian authorities hastily ordered the fleet of “death ships” out of the harbor, but it was too late: Over the next five years, the Black Death would kill more than 20 million people in Europe – almost one-third of the continent’s population.

It killed almost 1/3 of Europe's population. That's a pretty tough judgement. What had they done in particular to deserve it?

Today, scientists understand that the Black Death, now known as the plague, is spread by a bacillus called Yersina pestis. (The French biologist Alexandre Yersin discovered this germ at the end of the 19th century.)

They know that the bacillus travels from person to person pneumonically, or through the air, as well as through the bite of infected fleas and rats. Both of these pests could be found almost everywhere in medieval Europe, but they were particularly at home aboard ships of all kinds – which is how the deadly plague made its way through one European port city after another.

So the rats and their fleas which were a feature of Medieval life, but particularly on ships, were the carriers. Were they harbingers of divine judgement, or were unsanitary conditions to blame?

.... Many people fled the cities for the countryside, but even there they could not escape the disease: It affected cows, sheep, goats, pigs and chickens as well as people.

In fact, so many sheep died that one of the consequences of the Black Death was a European wool shortage. And many people, desperate to save themselves, even abandoned their sick and dying loved ones. “Thus doing,” Boccaccio wrote, “each thought to secure immunity for himself.”

Apparently God had it in for the cows, sheep, goats, pigs and chickens as well. I wonder what they did to upset Him?

The Black Death epidemic had run its course by the early 1350s, but the plague reappeared every few generations for centuries. Modern sanitation and public-health practices have greatly mitigated the impact of the disease but have not eliminated it.

For centuries it reappeared. But now modern modern sanitation and public health practices keep it largely under control. God's punishment, or a lack of knowledge and public health practices at the time?

Of course God is aware of the Coronavirus, but is it a judgement, or is it a natural outworking of the live animal markets at Wuhan, and the cruel practices carried out there? Is climate change God's punishment, or a natural outworking of our short term stupidity and greed in using up an immense amount of the fossil fuel reserves in a short time?

It all reminds me of a comment by my old pastor during one of his sermons - "Judgement is built in!" (into the system).

Abuse our sexual proclivities, and we end up with sexually transmitted diseases. Get hooked on drugs, and we lose our lives trying to keep up the habit for diminishing returns. Waste fossil fuels that were meant to last for generations and we wind up with climate change. The rich abuse the poor and we end up with Stalin's dictatorship, with a nuclear armed Soviet Union. Treat the Arabs and the Middle East with contempt and we end up with an Islamic stand-off. Fail to apply sanitary practices and we end up with the Black Death. Western Europe treats it's colonial possessions with contempt and it ends up with the First World War. Kill the unborn in a holocaust, and we eliminate the next generation of leaders who would have solved many of the problems we've created. Create enormous levels of debt and we set ourselves up for financial meltdown.

It's built in.
 
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