Copied Games

[Dust and Ashes]

Here's a brilliant idea. Maybe if the companies didn't charge such a high price for their products, people would be more willing to buy it. You see, nothing is ever completely free, even pirated goods. They're generally of *a lot* cheaper, but there are still costs involved, whether its the broadband connection and CD used to download and burn, or whether it's coming up with the matter for your matter replicator.

Do you have any idea how much MS Office for 2000 machines would cost? Like the other guy said, in a way, it's a matter of two parties "stealing" from each other. How would you feel if it was your company forced to cough up $300,000 for overpriced MS Office licenses?

We actually wanted to go with OpenOffice but with the place being ran by politicians who were afraid the teachers might get upset if they had to learn something new, we were told to "just install it so they'll quit whining."

As far as the price of games, it can also be looked at as paying for being cool enough to have a game when it's brand new. I bought Fable new because I'd been waiting for a year for it but I just came back from Gamestop with 3 games and was only out $30 for all of them plus a couple of gaming magazines. I want SWBG but I'm not paying full price. I'll wait a couple of months and get it used for $25.

I do agree though that they need to be more realistic with prices. $54 for Doom 3? Gimme a break.

 

[Follower of Christ]

It's wrong, but people do it anyway. I personally have done it a few times but because I just wanted to try the game out, then I went out and bought the real thing.

I do that when they company refuses to offer like a sample game.

man, I spent THOUSANDS on games way back when and most of them werent worth the money.....
I would copy a game to make sure its worth the money first, if its not worth it, then its not worth owning a copy anyway.

I love companies like microsoft who let you try a partial game so you can see if you like it and if your pc can handle it before you go blow $50.

These days tho, I cant afford to buy them like that....i may buy one game in a year or so....

but yeah....owning a game you havent paid for is techically stealing either way

 

[hexa2002]

As far as the price of games, it can also be looked at as paying for being cool enough to have a game when it's brand new. I bought Fable new because I'd been waiting for a year for it but I just came back from Gamestop with 3 games and was only out $30 for all of them plus a couple of gaming magazines. I want SWBG but I'm not paying full price. I'll wait a couple of months and get it used for $25.

Very good point!
Where I live I can usually get a game for $10 about one year after release.

 

[SUNSTONE]

None of it is stealing. It's copyright infringment. And yes, that's what the law says.

As soon as we invent matter replicators, it will be the equivalent of a person going to someone's car and creating a replica and driving off in the replica.

If the companies have their way, even personal backups are illegal (it's better business for them after all to make you go buy another copy if your copy gets damaged and you don't have a backup). In fact, they already try to do it with all their copy protections. Get it? In fact, if you'll read their little license agreements, they'll usually say something about how you're not allowed to circumvent that protection (and using a program that allows you to bypass that protection and make a backup is technically circumventing the protection). They're depriving us of our Fair Use rights and we don't see them going to court for that. Oh no, but people will blindly listen to them and let the company rights trump *our* rights.

Down loading a game, that the makers wanted to sell, is stealing.
You can put all of fancy words on it as you like, but the bottom line, it is the very essence of stealing.

1. You have no rights for stealing a product.

Now if you have the right to make a "back up", then use it. But once you give that back up away, you are now stealing.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Naw, its two people owning one legal copy of the game.

Says you.
But the law says otherwise.
How about I make 50 copys of the game, and give them out to everyone I know? Now thats 49 copys the company will never sell. That is stealing!

 

[SUNSTONE]

By law, it isn't stealing. It all just comes down to morals really.

That is true for us Christians. Even if the law didn't say anything, which it does, we shouldn't do it, simply becuase it is morally wrong.

These companys are making games as their living. I am a server, and what people are doing here, would be the same as if they didn't tip me.

Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
Also the bible talks about paying the price for something, instead of trying to talk them down.
We want to get paid for our work, and so do these game makers.

 

[SUNSTONE]

It's wrong for publishers to exploit developers, but they do it anyway.

It's something to take into consideration. Do you really want your money to go towards someone who uses it to hurt hard working people?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

If you steal from a company, will it not effect the workers in how they get raises and such?

 

[seebs]

Naw, its two people owning one legal copy of the game.

How do you figure?

I mean, if I photocopy a book, and a friend of mine and I both read it at once, are we just owning a single legal copy of the book? No, we've somehow ended up with two copies.

 

[SUNSTONE]

thanks for all your input i started this thread and i believe that if my soul convicts me or especially the word of God i am in the worng ,BUT in this matter it doesnt i dont make that much money and for me to spend 5 dollars on renting a geam when i could make a game for 1 dollar for my self just seems smarter. Our laws and created to protect the business not the consumer so if they jack prices up to like 70 a game i probably wouldnt want to buy a game that imma beat in 3 days . So I believe that the Lord said THO SHALT NOT STEAL , but in all reality who is stealing from who. We the little guys (the consumers and developers) stealing or the big guys (the publishers ) think it over let me know what u think

Those laws that protect the business, in return do protect the consumer.
Who do you think does and makes all of the goods and services in the world?
The consumer.
Its a big circle, a chain.

Besides here in America we try to keep things fair for consumers as well. Like for instance, when an event happens, like a hurricane. The states steps in and says that businesses can not jack the prices up to crazy ammounts.
Or when Mircosoft was split by the government, or something like that.
Laws say that businesses must pay a minimum wage, and respect pregnant women.

They have laws, just like we have laws.
But the bottom line is what God says. If God gives the definition of stealing, then whatever falls into that definition, is in fact stealing. No matter what the law says.

 

[Crispie]

1 Corinthians 6
8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


God hates thievery, and getting a free copy of a game is just that.

 

[seebs]

God hates thievery, and getting a free copy of a game is just that.

You're arguing the part everyone agrees on (stealing is bad) and not even hinting at any kind of support for the part people don't agree on (free copies of games are stealing).

 

[Crispie]

what the heck are you talking about.


God hates thievery, and getting a free copy of a game is just that. Its a fact that taking a game you dont own and making your own copy is stealing. Just like if someone makes a program that they put hard work into, and require a 5 dollar fee to use it, you use the program they made for free by copying it from a friend. Yeah thats stealing.

 

[mrsir]

its agenst F.B.I. laws to copy games and give them to some one outside of you family consisting of your brother sister your mom and dad

 

[Dracil]

1) It's not "F.B.I. laws." It's copyright laws.
2) It's technically illegal for you to share it with your direct family. That's right. Except for in rare circumstances, The Company wants you to pay for the extra copy.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Then buy the extra copy.
I do it often, I'll buy extra copys for my friends and family once in awhile. Especially if its an awesome game.
I never ever make backups, and I never ever have problems with my originals.

Laws are laws, and Romans 12 (or 13) says obey them.
Copy Right laws, are still laws. Just because everyone seems to be doing it, doesn't make it right.
Just because you can't afford it, doesn't make it right.
Just because they didn't give you a demo, doesn't make it right.
Just because company A is rich, doesn't make it right.
Just because company A doesn't do things like you would like, doesn't make it right.

Do the right thing.

 

[hexa2002]

Do you have any idea how much MS Office for 2000 machines would cost? Like the other guy said, in a way, it's a matter of two parties "stealing" from each other. How would you feel if it was your company forced to cough up $300,000 to $600,000 for overpriced MS Office licenses?

Now if I have a company with 100 cars, do you have any idea how much gas would cost? I steal it instead. The power for my 2000 computers as well.

No really. I`m a programmer myself. Now explain to me why getting my program for free makes it any more legal because you need it for 2000 machines?

 

[Dracil]

Now if I have a company with 100 cars, do you have any idea how much gas would cost? I steal it instead. The power for my 2000 computers as well.

No really. I`m a programmer myself. Now explain to me why getting my program for free makes it any more legal because you need it for 2000 machines?

False analogy again. If people still do not understand the definition and difference of stealing and copying, I'm afraid I can't help you. You're a programmer, I would think you'd know better.

Anyway, apparently you don't understand my point either. I was explaining the simple economics of the situation. You raise the price, then of course the demand will be lower. You add in substitutes (aka competition) and voila, that's the market in action. Copyright laws are after all a mechanism for enforcing monopolies.

 

[seebs]

what the heck are you talking about.

Exactly what you started to do again!

God hates thievery, and getting a free copy of a game is just that.

You keep repeating the underlined text, but the next paragraph is the first time you've shown any support for the claim.

Its a fact that taking a game you dont own and making your own copy is stealing.

Why? How is it "stealing"? Normally, when I steal something, the person I stole it from doesn't have it anymore.

There are clear distinctions between copyright infringement and stealing. They aren't the same laws.

Just like if someone makes a program that they put hard work into, and require a 5 dollar fee to use it, you use the program they made for free by copying it from a friend. Yeah thats stealing.

Why? Can you show how it is stealing, as opposed to either "not wrong at all" or "wrong, but not stealing"? You haven't shown your reasoning here. A sense of moral outrage is not an argument.

 

[seebs]

False analogy again. If people still do not understand the definition and difference of stealing and copying, I'm afraid I can't help you. You're a programmer, I would think you'd know better.

Anyway, apparently you don't understand my point either. I was explaining the simple economics of the situation. You raise the price, then of course the demand will be lower. You add in substitutes (aka competition) and voila, that's the market in action. Copyright laws are after all a mechanism for enforcing monopolies.

Actually, his analogy was quite good; your argument came down solely to "costs too much to do X, so I shouldn't have to".

 

[Dracil]

His analogy came down to "it's stealing" which you yourself argued against.

My argument comes down to, "it costs too much, and there's a substitute. Go learn some basic economics and learn why you need to lower your prices." In addition, I'm making an argument that this is a war between Consumers and Businesses, and there'll obviously be biases depending on which group you're part of (and especially hard when you're part of both groups). And of course there'll be the ignorant who will gladly argue against their own good. Unfortunately for the Consumers, Businesses are the ones who tend to have the money to lobby for the laws to be passed in their favor. And there are also a lot of people who will blindly throw away their rights instead of fighting for them.

BTW, I want to ask this additional question. As a programmer, do you use *any* sort of copy protection on your software? If you do, I need to ask you, what gives you the right to deprive me of my Fair Use rights to make personal backups as written in the law? Why do you refuse to follow that part of the law? Now if you don't use any sort of copy protection, then it doesn't apply to you.