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Converstion Poll

Have you changed your OT viewpoint since joining OT threads

  • Yes, from evolution to creationism.

  • No, still a creationist.

  • Yes, from creation to evolution.

  • No, still an evolutionist.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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busterdog

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TE to YEC.

After many years of watching conventional science/medicine fall on its face (not on all issues obviously, but often enough), and after getting more serious about the Word in many non-origins areas, all the stuff filed away years ago on creationism started to make sense.
 
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rmwilliamsll

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TE to YEC.

After many years of watching conventional science/medicine fall on its face (not on all issues obviously, but often enough), and after getting more serious about the Word in many non-origins areas, all the stuff filed away years ago on creationism started to make sense.
i'd be interested in a thread here on the scientific evidence for YECism and why you changed positions.
afaik, there is no scientific evidence for YECism. afaik, the Scriptural interpretation that underlies it has been adequately refuted by books such as _Paradigms on Pilgrimage_ for one example.

but it would be nice to see if someone has details that i am unaware of.
 
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MatthewDiscipleofGod

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As I have mentioned before I grew up being taught evolution and that is just what I believed. I didn't think it made a difference with my Christian walk which I started it at age 23. After reading threads though between evolutionists and creationists I saw that the scientific evidence for evolution lacks greatly and that worse yet that believing in evolution does harm a Christians walk. I never was taught the problems with evolution in school but after several years and much research my belief in a young earth creation is stronger then ever before!
 
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artybloke

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I think I might have been convinced of YECism once when I had contact with a pentecostalist church. I even read a few books.

Unfortunately, since then I've not seen anything by a so-called creation "scientist" that was anything other than a tissie of strawmen, misinterpreted science, lies, shallow thinking, quote-mining and nonsense.

I thank God daily that I'm not a YECist.
 
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busterdog

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i'd be interested in a thread here on the scientific evidence for YECism and why you changed positions.
afaik, there is no scientific evidence for YECism. afaik, the Scriptural interpretation that underlies it has been adequately refuted by books such as _Paradigms on Pilgrimage_ for one example.

but it would be nice to see if someone has details that i am unaware of.

OK. I'll play. I will assume my place on the doctor's couch for analysis and testing.

However, to quote Hannibal Lecter: "A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.":yum:

I had the usual liberal arts education with a fair amount of biology and psychology. The standard academic model for creation seemed reasonable. I spent a lot of time at Church. It was cool but somewhat liberal.

Along the way, I found it very intersting to study enormous mis-steps in conventional science, lots of it having to do with medicine. The following is a very good recent example of a guy who doesn't fit the mainstream view of treatment for vertigo and they try to take his license as a result.

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/burke010507.html

That is just a good example of scientific persecution.

So, I have deep suspicion about conventional science, if not cynicism.

A number of friends provided some interesting information along the way. That Mt. St. Helens stuff and the catastrophic formation of the Grand Canyon was very interesting to me. I didn't look to carefully at it, but as an exercise in imagination, it was appealing to think about what my be plausible and beyond scientific acceptance. I got some familiarity with standard fare from creationism. I also had a reasonable grasp of conventional cosmology for a layman.

Along the way, I noted a number of areas I had to let go of things like the modern metaphorical view of things like resurrection and the place of Israel in history. Similar issues are raised in intercessory work. With experience and understanding of the literal Word, there is less and less room for a merely spiritual or metaphorical view of scripture on these points. It can be literal and other things, but it just can't make sense if it is only spiritual or metaphorical.

Gerard Schroeder was very interesting to me, again because it made a literal view plausible and still does. Chuck Missler is very intersting in a similar way. Lots of scripture has been assumed to be metaphorical and proven to be otherwise. To paraphrase Missler, he has made lots of mistakes in interpreting scripture, but the biggest ones are always in failing to take the Word literally enough. I firmly believing that is a fundamental human problem. He is very good for teaching such ideas. Setterfield was a huge step in imagining a creationist cosmology. Setterfield also by demonstration pointed out where the overblown assumptions in conventional cosmology lie.

I read the statistical case for his model and I noodle around and notice how many of the problems he poses are interesting problems as between recognized scientists, but heresy when he says it.
 
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Dannager

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If you repeat a lie long enough you'll get others to believe it, including yourself.
To my knowledge no one has ever started a thread on evidence for YEC that was successful (by successful, I mean not completely and totally refuted within the space of a day or two).
 
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rmwilliamsll

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http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/burke010507.html

That is just a good example of scientific persecution.

So, I have deep suspicion about conventional science, if not cynicism.


my personal favorite on the topic are prions and ulcers as infections. so what? science and people err. i didn't need a scientific or a theological education to learn that. as they say, everything i really needed to learn, i learned in kindergarten.

since prions, vertigo treatment, ulcers as infections, and etc are the case. then the well established sciences of geology (age of the earth), and biology (TofE) are probably as wrong as these example are. actually more wrong since these theories are deeply entrenched, well evidenced and very productive theories accepted by millions of people.

i'd suspect this is a logical error.

With experience and understanding of the literal Word, there is less and less room for a merely spiritual or metaphorical view of scripture on these points. It can be literal and other things, but it just can't make sense if it is only spiritual or metaphorical.

probably not. however i think Adam and EVe are historical and so in Noah. does that make my interpretation better or more faithful to Scripture? probably not. only more in line with the 19thC ideas of historicity that i've inherited with my theology.

but afai can tell, there is nothing here about the positive scientific evidence for a YEC position. this is where the issue turns. YECism claims to be a scientific idea, yet when you look, poof, no science, no real scientific claims, only a particular interpretation of a few passages of Scripture.
 
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busterdog

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To my knowledge no one has ever started a thread on evidence for YEC that was successful (by successful, I mean not completely and totally refuted within the space of a day or two).

Well, if I just refute you, and I hereby refute you, can I also declare victory?
 
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