Contraception

[sunlover1]

If one can show, from history, biology and/or anthropology, that it is "natural" for mammals in general (and humans specificially) to count days and take temperatures so as to reschedule sex to infertile times, then I'll accept such is "natural."

I dont think it's natural because it seems to me that (Knowing how God
really desires children from the marriage) the more fertile times would
by "nature" be the times of more desire hormonally.
So I guess Natural FP is a type of misnomer.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

NFP is like skipping dessert altogether

No, it's more like eating dessert before the salad.


Catholic Birth Control is "more sex than otherwise" but done contraceptively - done during infertile times (when it's LEAST natural).





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[Rhamiel]

No, it's more like eating dessert before the salad.


Catholic Birth Control is "more sex than otherwise" but done contraceptively - done during infertile times (when it's LEAST natural).





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least natural? compared to what?
compared to homosexual sodomy? compared to chemicals that make women unable to have children? compared to a little rubber sheath? compared to a diaphragm being used as a kind of cork?

also you keep saying "more sex then otherwise"
compared to what? not more sex then people on the Pill
not more sex then people who use condoms

 

[Rhamiel]

I am starting to have my ideas changed about NFP, in a great part thanks to this thread

 

[bbbbbbb]

I am starting to have my ideas changed about NFP, in a great part thanks to this thread

Me too! What I observe in nature are mammals that go into rut during the times of greatest fertility of the females and engage in intercourse with the primary purpose of producing progeny. This is the precise opposite of NFP which tells me that NFP is just about as "natural" as any form of contraception which is condemns by the Catholic Church.

I am glad that we are both seeing things the same way now.

 

[MamaZ]

Its called mating season for a reason. lol

 

[Thekla]

No, it's more like eating dessert before the salad.

How so ?

Catholic Birth Control is "more sex than otherwise" but done contraceptively - done during infertile times (when it's LEAST natural).

I don't recall the above statement occurring in any of the RC statements; can you quote where it does ?




.[/quote]

 

[Thekla]

NFP is nothing like skipping desert as "desert," in this case, is being had during the NFP.

Sexual desire is being controlled during some periods.
When does artificial birth control require on to allay sexual desire ?

 

[Thekla]

If this was strictly a feminine issue, I would agree.

And yet, looking at this from a masculine perspective, having unrestrained sex during most of the month not only doesn't require any self-control at all, but would actually be awesome if it actually happened!

However, to have to be attentive and conscious of your bodily functions during the peak of sexual enjoyment is a terribly masterful act of self-control.

What I can't figure out from your arguments is why a women's self-control during her fertile period is condonable by you, but a man's self-control all the time is condemnable to you.

What makes them fundamentally different to you?

I do not recall saying that.
And I'm not sure I have condemned anybody.

Can you describe what you mean, and how what I've stated leads you to this conclusion ?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.

No, it's more like eating dessert before the salad.

How so ?

Modern Catholic Birth Control methods are about having sex BUT contraceptively - by redirecting it purposefully and by design to times of infertility; to have sex ("more often than otherwise" Catholics in this thread and elsewhere stress) but contraceptively, performed with the MEANS and the END of "rendering procreation impossible" (what the RCC calls "evil"), the method taught by the RCC and at times performed, employed, implemented, done by some with the purpose, design, goal, intent of contraception. The sex is simply done BEFORE fertile times (a purposeful circumvention) - like having sex before the salad. A Catholic here quoting a Catholic document stating that what it condemns is anything done "BEFORE, during or after" that has the purpose of rendering procreation unlikely. Having an abundance of sex ("more than otherwise") but BEFORE the fertile time with the design, goal, purpose and intent of rendering procreation impossible is what modern Catholic Birth Control is all about, the RCC will teach couples the means, the method of HOW to do this very unnatural thing.They often have classes in this right there at the parish center.


Modern Catholic Birth Control methodology is NOT about having sex less, it's about having sex contraceptively. It will teach you how to do it so that you can have sex but render procreation impossible. They may even require you to take the class in how to have sex contraceptively - my sister was.



.

 

[Thekla]

.

Modern Catholic Birth Control methods are about having sex BUT contraceptively - by redirecting it purposefully and by design to times of infertility; to have sex ("more often than otherwise" Catholics in this thread and elsewhere stress) but contraceptively, performed with the MEANS and the END of "rendering procreation impossible" (what the RCC calls "evil"), the method taught by the RCC and at times performed, employed, implemented, done by some with the purpose, design, goal, intent of contraception. The sex is simply done BEFORE fertile times (a purposeful circumvention) - like having sex before the salad. A Catholic here quoting a Catholic document stating that what it condemns is anything done "BEFORE, during or after" that has the purpose of rendering procreation unlikely. Having an abundance of sex ("more than otherwise") but BEFORE the fertile time with the design, goal, purpose and intent of rendering procreation impossible is what modern Catholic Birth Control is all about, the RCC will teach couples the means, the method of HOW to do this very unnatural thing.They often have classes in this right there at the parish center.


Modern Catholic Birth Control methodology is NOT about having sex less, it's about having sex contraceptively. It will teach you how to do it so that you can have sex but render procreation impossible. They may even require you to take the class in how to have sex contraceptively - my sister was.

I did ask for a quotation, not a description

 

[Aibrean]

After being off the pill I'm more or less getting a big lesson in the outside the proverbial box thinking.

You don't need prevention and you don't need sex limiting or vice-versa. If and when God wants you to have a child, you are going to have one. So I'm not going to go by doc's orders and do it every other day to increase my chances. God can do what he wants.

 

[patricius79]

After being off the pill I'm more or less getting a big lesson in the outside the proverbial box thinking.

You don't need prevention and you don't need sex limiting or vice-versa. If and when God wants you to have a child, you are going to have one. So I'm not going to go by doc's orders and do it every other day to increase my chances. God can do what he wants.

I think that is a good attitude.

however the idea that God is Sovereign does not conflict with the idea of human free will, rightly understood.

for example, there is nothing wrong with freely choosing to have sex during a particular time period in order to become pregnant pregnancy.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I think that is a good attitude.

however the idea that God is Sovereign does not conflict with the idea of human free will, rightly understood.

for example, there is nothing wrong with freely choosing to have sex during a particular time period in order to become pregnant pregnancy.

In the exercise of free will to avoid pregnancy only certain types of avoidance tactics are approved by the Catholic Church whereas others are branded as unnatural and are condemned as such. Why?

 

[sunlover1]

After being off the pill I'm more or less getting a big lesson in the outside the proverbial box thinking.

You don't need prevention and you don't need sex limiting or vice-versa. If and when God wants you to have a child, you are going to have one. So I'm not going to go by doc's orders and do it every other day to increase my chances. God can do what he wants.

This is refreshing!
God bless you more and more!

... others are branded as unnatural and are condemned as such. Why?

Good question.

 

[Aibrean]

I will have to add that the reason I started the pill in the first place wasn't for contraception but for treating PCOS. I just feel much more free right now.

 

[MamaZ]

My daughter is on BC for health reasons.

 

[cubinity]

On BC, my wife has one period a month.
Not on BC, she has on every three to four months.
What's up with that?

 

[Aibrean]

PCOS and other reproductive disorders can cause that. 3-4 months is not normal. She should get checked out.

 

[sunlover1]

On BC, my wife has one period a month.
Not on BC, she has on every three to four months.
What's up with that?

PCOS and other reproductive disorders can cause that. 3-4 months is not normal. She should get checked out.

True.
Changing your diet can help too.
Eliminating all hormone injected meat and dairy (citation below)
Adding a good vitamin regimine is essential because we're
lacking some nutrients in our soils.
Eliminating Hgh Fructose CS and refined sugars.
Eating more organic vegetables
(pesticide free)
Getting more sunshine and fresh air...
TRuly, we can't trust the food industry
and we do stay inside in air conditioning
.. not the greatest environment for our
body/health.


Artifical Hormones, hormone residue in meat - The Issues - Sustainable Table
In 2005, 32.5 million cattle were slaughtered to provide beef for US consumers .i Scientists believe about two-thirds of American cattle raised in for slaughter today are injected with hormones to make them grow fasterii and America’s dairy cows are given a genetically-engineered hormone called rBGH to increase milk production. These measures mean higher profits for the beef and dairy industries, but what does it mean for consumers? Although the USDA and FDA claim these hormones are safe, there is growing concern that hormone residues in meat and milk might be harmful to human health and the environment. What's in the Beef?
According to the European Union’s Scientific Committee on Veterinary Measures Relating to Public Health, the use of six natural and artificial growth hormones in beef production poses a potential risk to human health.iii These six hormones include three which are naturally occurring—Oestradiol, Progesterone and Testosterone—and three which are synthetic—Zeranol, Trenbolone, and Melengestrol....


Anyhow, I would try to find out why and help my body to heal itself,
rather than taking the BC to treat the symptom. That and prayer.

The hormone therapy could come back to haunt you (IMO)
(Notice some of the television adds.. "if you took this drug,
if you took this medicine.. if you took this and that.. call us
at such and such attorney's office..)....